Ken Grimshaw

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Pe.A
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by Pe.A »

TMF wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:42 am How about now? Are you happy to have your children beaten by strangers? If no, at what specific date did ''then' become 'now'?
It doesn't apply now, so why are you getting excited...?

What specific date? The specific date that it was banned, i suppose...
TMF
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by TMF »

Pe.A wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:08 am What specific date? The specific date that it was banned, i suppose...
So, what is right or wrong for corporal punishment is defined by place and time, rather like grooming, as you explained here:

https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 27#p149627
Let's be clear, the only difference between grooming and seduction is the age of consent - I'm sure the techniques are remarkably similar. People have always fancied, and will always fancy 14/15 year old girls. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that, it's the law of the land that counts. Before I get mobbed for that statement, if one checks the ages of consent across Europe they range from between 14-18 - and in a country like Spain, the age of consent up until 1999 was 13. It is what it is - make of that what you will.
So where and when would you prefer to send your children to school from a corporal punishment point of view?
Pe.A
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by Pe.A »

TMF wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:59 pm
Pe.A wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:08 am What specific date? The specific date that it was banned, i suppose...
So, what is right or wrong for corporal punishment is defined by place and time, rather like grooming, as you explained here:

https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 27#p149627
Let's be clear, the only difference between grooming and seduction is the age of consent - I'm sure the techniques are remarkably similar. People have always fancied, and will always fancy 14/15 year old girls. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that, it's the law of the land that counts. Before I get mobbed for that statement, if one checks the ages of consent across Europe they range from between 14-18 - and in a country like Spain, the age of consent up until 1999 was 13. It is what it is - make of that what you will.
So where and when would you prefer to send your children to school from a corporal punishment point of view?
This really is getting tiring.
TMF
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by TMF »

Pe.A wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:55 am
TMF wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:59 pm
Pe.A wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:08 am What specific date? The specific date that it was banned, i suppose...
So, what is right or wrong for corporal punishment is defined by place and time, rather like grooming, as you explained here:

https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 27#p149627
Let's be clear, the only difference between grooming and seduction is the age of consent - I'm sure the techniques are remarkably similar. People have always fancied, and will always fancy 14/15 year old girls. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that, it's the law of the land that counts. Before I get mobbed for that statement, if one checks the ages of consent across Europe they range from between 14-18 - and in a country like Spain, the age of consent up until 1999 was 13. It is what it is - make of that what you will.
So where and when would you prefer to send your children to school from a corporal punishment point of view?
This really is getting tiring.
Why tiring, Pe.A?
Where and when would you prefer to send your children to school from a corporal punishment, or grooming/seduction, point of view? Pick a place and decade - to give people a sense of what you prefer for your children. Feel free to be as honest as you want.
Pe.A
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by Pe.A »

TMF wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:29 pm
Pe.A wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:55 am
TMF wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:59 pm

So, what is right or wrong for corporal punishment is defined by place and time, rather like grooming, as you explained here:

https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 27#p149627


So where and when would you prefer to send your children to school from a corporal punishment point of view?
This really is getting tiring.
Why tiring, Pe.A?
Where and when would you prefer to send your children to school from a corporal punishment, or grooming/seduction, point of view? Pick a place and decade - to give people a sense of what you prefer for your children. Feel free to be as honest as you want.
Well, considering that no-one can actually go back in time, it's just a very silly and badly thought-out question.

But in general terms, i should point out that it's a historical truism that you can't really interpret and judge the past in terms of modern values and standards.

Besides, i reckon i could have benefited from the odd kick up the arse when i was a CH, or at least the threat of it...

Detentions weren't really a punishment - more of an inconvenience.
TMF
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by TMF »

Pe.A wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:56 am
TMF wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:29 pm
Pe.A wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:55 am

This really is getting tiring.
Why tiring, Pe.A?
Where and when would you prefer to send your children to school from a corporal punishment, or grooming/seduction, point of view? Pick a place and decade - to give people a sense of what you prefer for your children. Feel free to be as honest as you want.
Well, considering that no-one can actually go back in time, it's just a very silly and badly thought-out question.

But in general terms, i should point out that it's a historical truism that you can't really interpret and judge the past in terms of modern values and standards.

Besides, i reckon i could have benefited from the odd kick up the arse when i was a CH, or at least the threat of it...

Detentions weren't really a punishment - more of an inconvenience.
Pe.A you can and do interpret and judge in terms of very modern values and standards. Here is an example of your contemporary interpretive judgment:
Let's be clear, the only difference between grooming and seduction is the age of consent - I'm sure the techniques are remarkably similar.
loringa
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Corporal Punishment

Post by loringa »

As L P Hartley wrote in The Go-Between, 'the past is a foreign country, they do things differently there'. I find this increasingly coming to mind as we collectively reassess the past, particularly as it seems that modern commentators tend to see everything in terms of black and white: it was either entirely good, or entirely bad, no room for a more nuanced assessment. To a degree, I see the corporal punishment argument in this context. TMF clearly sees it as wholly bad and I am not unsympathetic to that viewpoint, on the other hand, it never did me any harm though I was no more than an occasional recipient. I am also not sure it was 'good' for the perpetrators, especially those 'enthusiasts' of whom there appear to have been some in the past, though not Ken Grimshaw.

Nonetheless we no have a problem in society as a whole and within education in particular. We actually have very few effective deterrents available to teachers (and even parents) in order to ensure our young people behave in what we would see as an acceptable manner. As any parent or any teacher knows, if a child doesn't want to do something it is incredibly difficult the make them. I most certainly would not advocate a return to corporal punishment but it did provide an additional tool in the golf bag of options available. At the time, increasingly in the further-off past and decreasingly as we approached 1986 when it was made illegal in the maintained sector and subsequently in independent schools (1998 I think), it was seen as a useful tool. Whether or not society in the round was the better for it, that may be a matter of opinion.
TMF
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Re: Corporal Punishment

Post by TMF »

loringa wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:23 am As L P Hartley wrote in The Go-Between, 'the past is a foreign country, they do things differently there'.
Hence 1990s departures to Thailand and points East, pursuing a burning desire to 'educate' more widely, I suppose.
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