Politics

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, and is NON CH related - chat about the weather, or anything else that takes your fancy.

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Katharine
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Re: Politics

Post by Katharine » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:33 pm

loringa wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:20 pm
Katharine wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:47 pm
I live in Plaid Cymru territory, I think it will stay the same for a long time.
Perhaps this is the price you must pay for living in one of the most beautiful places in the British Isles?
True!

I do have a lot of time for Liz Savile Roberts as a constituency MP. A couple of years ago I had to arrange the unveiling of a commemorative slate plaque, where Liz was the guest of honour. At the event, I spoke before her, and when she did get up to speak, her notes were hand written at lots of different angles on the page, she must have made them herself not relied on a researcher. I had sent her some information, and links about the person being commemorated but she had gone further.
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rockfreak
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Re: Politics

Post by rockfreak » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:28 pm

LongGone wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:36 pm
rockfreak wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:17 pm
Totally wasted. No other country seems to need them. What's special about them?
Actually, quite common in the US. Unlike the UK they make sure to stay out of the limelight as far as possible.
It's an interesting point though Mike, that the US and the UK are two of the nominally richest countries in the world yet also two of the most unequal. Do our respective school systems have something to do with this I wonder. If we're going to compare like with like I'd prefer to compare the UK with the rest of western developed Europe.

scrub
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Re: Politics

Post by scrub » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:02 pm

rockfreak wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:28 pm
LongGone wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:36 pm
Actually, quite common in the US. Unlike the UK they make sure to stay out of the limelight as far as possible.
It's an interesting point though Mike, that the US and the UK are two of the nominally richest countries in the world yet also two of the most unequal. Do our respective school systems have something to do with this I wonder. If we're going to compare like with like I'd prefer to compare the UK with the rest of western developed Europe.
While I wouldn't disagree too much with richest, most unequal is a bit of a stretch IMO. I'd argue that the gulf between the top and bottom of society in terms of money/influence/whatever is far greater in countries like India, Thailand, and Brazil than the UK or US. Billionaires are pretty much the same no matter where you go, but even the most neglected towns and estates in the UK are nothing compared to the slums in Mumbai or Bangkok, or some of the favelas in Rio.

Anyway, here's a very brief and selective list of boarding schools in Europe. Plenty in developed western Europe, Switzerland in particular has a number of small and (naturally) exclusive schools catering for kids of the well-heeled.
ThB 89-91, PeA 93-96

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Re: Politics

Post by sejintenej » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:38 pm

scrub wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:02 pm
the gulf between the top and bottom of society in terms of money/influence/whatever is far greater in countries like India, Thailand, and Brazil than the UK or US. Billionaires are pretty much the same no matter where you go, but even the most neglected towns and estates in the UK are nothing compared to the slums in Mumbai or Bangkok, or some of the favelas in Rio.
From experience I would echo what you say about Brazil; from memory 2% of the population own 95% of everything. However there are differences. One young (25 years) man I worked with had already made and already lost a million US dollars twice. Another man, illiterate initially and from the streets of Rio built up a financial empire such that the Central Bank had to pay him over a billion dollars when they took it over. Not only did he learn to read and write Portuguese but also English and French and get a good grasp of law all in about 20 years. Those would have been far harder in the UK.

The favelas are a different matter. Bear in mind that there is no state control there. There are houses built of blocks like any other house, with running water, electric power, sewage, TV, cookers etc. for which they pay absolutely nothing; the authorities are afraid to enter the area except rarely and in big numbers to TRY to catch named criminals - they don't bother with people like some of my company's branch bank managers. Go in with a local and you are as safe as anywhere (which doesn't say much). Equally there are the poor / destitute but the situation is over generalised.

Everyone goes on about the favelas of Brazil but I have wandered alone in some of the back alleys of Bangkok (but never to the well publicised areas there :cry: :cry: :cry:) but I didn't have my Brazilian torn teeshirt and faded dirty jeans and of course I am distinguishable as a caucasian.. What I saw there was very similar to poorer parts of Rio de Janeiro though I admit to feeling totally safe there.
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Re: Politics

Post by rockfreak » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:43 pm

Replying to Scrub,I'm afraid I didn't put my point very well. I should have said that Britain and America were two of the most unequal countries in the DEVELOPED world (that is a fact according to the OECD). I think we can all see that great disparities of wealth exist in the developing world (or third world if that's how we put it these days) and there may be various reasons for this, ranging from local corruption to the activities of the CIA and international speculators in those countries - these factors may be connected.
As far as independent colleges are concerned in education, I accept that there may be many of them. But how big are they as units compared to the whole state education system? Do they wield a significant influence in the country concerned? Michael Scuffil has confirmed that Germany has a largely one-tier state system but with some other independent colleges (perhaps Catholic, say) but that these may not necessarily affect the egalitarian nature of the country at large because they don't hog the bulk of the resources as would be the case in Britain.
America is a strange case. Its traditional suspicion of government (or "gumment" as rednecks in the Bible Belt tend to call it) seems to have led to a thoroughly fractured educational system with education being handed down by loony faith bodies or commercially sponsored schools. Have I got this right? Perhaps Mike Adams can fill me in here. This led to a situation where It got to 1953 before the state of Tennessee finally caved in and agreed to start teaching Darwin's Theory of Evolution. So, independent colleges are one thing, but let's try and keep a broad perspective on all this. What is the broad thrust of education in the developed world (particularly western Europe) and how far are these independent institutions the norm or in fact merely marginal in the scheme of things?

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Re: Politics

Post by sejintenej » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:42 am

Sorry David B U T
UK private schools "hogging the resources". ???? If peeps want to spend money in M & S instead of House of Fraser is M & S hogging the national resources? Don't be stupid. If peeps want to pay their hard earned or saved money to sent their sprogs to school A instead of school B (which would be close to free) are the Schools A hogging the nation's resources?
Newly qualified teachers often have to find work in the more "difficult" schools before they can be considered for those in better areas - that is, to a large extent because newly qualified teachers are not experienced. If those experienced teachers wish to move from one school to another are those latter schools "hogging the resources"?
Yes; schools which relieve parents of fees can afford better conditions (but don't always) but that is simply because a) the state (or more correctly local education authorities) do not invest in the schools and b) school governors tend to be political so we see a diluted verssion of what you have pointed out about US state schools.

I am not stating that state controlled schools are automatically bad - just look at the quality of those from Eastern Europe who are now working here; they are streets ahead of the majority of state educated pupils here. We are not getting well qualified teachers and the schools are not demanding the best work from pupils - get them through a bastardised exam system and get more state money. At least the public schools are dependent on turniing out well educated and competent pupils or otherwise parents wil not pay them - state schools do not have that incentive.

You mention Tennessee starting to teach Darwinian evolution theory. I agree that the change was centuries too late but remember that the mathematical constant pi is being taught to be the number 3 (and not 3.14159 etc) because certain states order it. (I think that there are some other states who use a third number for pi. Remember that their founding fathers are being decried because they had slaves - there was (?is) a big row because the Texas educational body when considering history wanted the astronauts to be considered the important people and ban the mention of the founding fathers. I have heard of biased political leanings being broadcast in UK state schools in place of authorised subjects.

Just waiting to see your commentary on "Dangerous Hero"
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Re: Politics

Post by rockfreak » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:22 pm

I'm clearly not the only person with my particular views. In this week's Guardian there has been a debate about the broadening of assisted places in the independent sector (I do love that clever Orwellian title: they mean the private sector). Mr Phil Jones from Ashford posts:
"Julie Robinson of the Independent Schools Council argues that private school subsidies support many talented children. Does this reveal the real motive behind their bursaries: to increase the successes of the private system by further reducing the opportunity for talented students to succeed in the state system? Until we have politicians on the left prepared to commit to real reform of this divisive system, the inequalities it creates will continue and increase. In the meantime private education should lose its charitable status and the public subsidies that go with it."

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Re: Politics

Post by rockfreak » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:58 pm

He's done it again. After a hiatus in which my letters didn't go in, The Grauniad has included mine among several letters arguing with the Economics Editor Larry Elliott that we're better in the EU than out, notwithstanding misgivings about the role of the 28 states in an increasingly globalised world. The section is headlined "Leaving the EU won't advance anti-capitalism" and my particular letter stresses the malign role that footloose international capital plays in the globalised system, rather than international trade, although others writing in stressed the value of more locally-produced goods as a way of avoiding both carbon emissions and a race to the bottom in wages and conditions, while of course in today's world never being quite able to emulate William Morris.

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Re: Politics

Post by sejintenej » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:57 pm

David; it strikes me that you want everyone including every pension fund, foreign manufacturer etc. to close down their companies, multinationals, small shops etc. make everyone redundant and put the proceeds in cash under their mattresses. Then the government will try to resurect an economy which has no shops, no transport, no employers, no competent management and minimal tax income. Any sensible person will flee the country with their money and what is left will be Russia under Lenin.

You don't believe me? Just remember the brain drain of doctors and other medical staff caused by Labour. Look at the brain drain from France to England caused by Macron. People can and do move and the better qualified the more likely; just look at the businesses created by the Hugenots who came in the 1500's, those who fled northern Italy and whose language is still a basic of English banking (and a little bit of English geography), look at the businesses created by those who fled Hungary, Idi Amin et al. They left difficulties caused by their authorities - the y can flee Britain. Only today on TV a ;prominent UK financier admitted that they have already moved a part of their business abroad

Yes, Lenein lived well but the populace suffered like Britain under Tony who got us in this mess in the first place
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Re: Politics

Post by J.R. » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:21 am

Will Jezza go down with his ship AND his red flag ??

One can only hope.
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

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Re: Politics

Post by rockfreak » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:58 pm

J.R. wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:21 am
Will Jezza go down with his ship AND his red flag ??

One can only hope.

No more or less than the Maybot will go down with her ship and her blue flag. Brexit aside, which party is more likely to deal with homelessness, food banks, inequality, sky-high rents, a dysfunctional social security system and lack of investment in the public sector.
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Avon
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Re: Politics

Post by Avon » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:57 pm

rockfreak wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:58 pm
J.R. wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:21 am
Will Jezza go down with his ship AND his red flag ??

One can only hope.

No more or less than the Maybot will go down with her ship and her blue flag. Brexit aside, which party is more likely to deal with homelessness, food banks, inequality, sky-high rents, a dysfunctional social security system and lack of investment in the public sector.
Neither of them. The godawful Tories through inclination, the risible Labour Party through incompetence.
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J.R.
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Re: Politics

Post by J.R. » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:28 am

Newsflash just in !

3 Tories have left to join the Labour 'Independents'.

It's getting better than 'Yes Minister' !
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

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Re: Politics

Post by rockfreak » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:55 pm

Avon wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:57 pm
rockfreak wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:58 pm
J.R. wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:21 am
Will Jezza go down with his ship AND his red flag ??

One can only hope.

No more or less than the Maybot will go down with her ship and her blue flag. Brexit aside, which party is more likely to deal with homelessness, food banks, inequality, sky-high rents, a dysfunctional social security system and lack of investment in the public sector.
Neither of them. The godawful Tories through inclination, the risible Labour Party through incompetence.
I can't remember when I last agreed with Avon!

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Re: Politics

Post by J.R. » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:44 am

I'm still awaiting my ordanance survey map for Hell and a recent Autotrader for second hand handcarts.
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

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