Languages, English and the EU: A call for opinions...

[Mark1]

I and a partner have been asked to propose the motion that English ought become the common language for the European Union for the next stage of one of the many interschool debating competitions (the regional round of the Mace, if that means anything) and doing the preparation has got me thinking as to the merits and grounds for and against such a statement. I figured that the forum might be a relatively good place to try to bounce ideas off people.

Obviously, for the vast majority of the 'forum-ites', English seems the simplest option (requiring no additional study or work!) so I'm especially interested to hear from those hailing from other shores about their immediate reaction - whether the often intense opposition is based on practicality or simply pride.

Can the advantages of a common language (such as translation costs saved) ever outweigh the possible cultural costs of such a measure? To 'those in the know' (linguists, etc), are alternatives, such as Esperanto (or even Latin!) really plausible or advantageous?

I seek out the opinions/comments from the oracle of information that is the forum...

[J.R.]

Thanks Mark. Well done Fiona - Another vote from me !

I await Marty's vote with trepidation.

On a serious note, I would normally have to go for the status quo vote.

My views on the E.U. and Europeans in general are well known in local Surrey watering holes.

Far be it for me to point out that during the period 1939-1945, the French surrendered, the Italians wanted to be on the winning side, even if it meant changing sides half way through. Then there was a vicious rumour that the Germans actually lost the war, yet now are one of the richest countries in th E.U., and not content with that, they now want only want to control the Union, but wish to organise a monopoly on deck and sun chairs during the summer holidays. I would mention the Swiss, but I think I'd better stay NEUTRAL on that one.

I rest me case, Me Lud !!

[Mid A 15]

Mark,

You've been on this forum long enough to learn that Fiona gets all the votes

To address the question more seriously: I am in principle against a supra national, federal, call it what you will EU. I favour an arrangement something along the lines of the old EFTA.

Adoption of a single language would in my view be a major step towards a single superstate and if you value the independence and diversity of the individual countries making up the EU then you have to support the status quo.

However that does not help the task you have. In your shoes I would argue if the EU is to develop into a superstate then the predominant language of the first (USA) and fourth (UK) largest economies of the world is English. English is also the main language of Australia and New Zealand which also feature in or close to the top ten economies of the world.

Furthermore because of the historic Commonwealth connections English is also spoken throughout much of Africa, Asia and the Carribean.

China is perhaps the one major economy where it can be argued English is not widely spoken but that argument could also be applied to any other European language such as French, German or Spanish.

Given the above English is therefore the most pragmatic language for the EU to adopt.

I hope these few thoughts help!

Good luck and I hope you win! Let us know how you get on.

[J.R.]

Reminds me of the lovely put down line, (allegedly true), of the time when a B.A. pilot, (nearing retirement), landed in Berlin and unfortunately taxied to the wrong bay.

A very terse Germanic voice from the control tower came over the flight-deck.

"Captain ! Don't you know Berlin at all ? Surely you've flown here before ?"

to which a polite English voice replied......

"Many, many times, but I never had to land !"

(think about it !!)

[icomefromalanddownunder]

Far be it for me to point out that during the period 1939-1945, the French surrendered, the Italians wanted to be on the winning side, even if it meant changing sides half way through.

Blimey JR, you are starting to sound like my (long deceased) Grandmother. She was avidly anti Britain entering the Common Market, apart from the fact that entry was being blocked by France. 'That DeGaull!!!!! We was good enough for 'im during the war blah, blah, blah'

As for a common language. Hmmmmm. Well, we apparently speak English here in Oz, as well as there in NZ and the USofA, yet I have been in a lab full of scientists from each of those countries, with a German and Yorkshireman thrown in for good measure, and I was the only person who could understand what each of them was saying, and was required to translate between them. Maybe learning Latin gave me this ability?

Good luck with the debate Mark. I guess my opinion is that you can instruct someone to speak English (or Esperanto, or Mandarin, or whateva) but you can't make him comprehensible.


Has anyone noticed the likeness between JR's and my avatars?

Taraforabit

Caroline

[englishangel]

Far be it for me to point out that during the period 1939-1945, the French surrendered, the Italians wanted to be on the winning side, even if it meant changing sides half way through.

Blimey JR, you are starting to sound like my (long deceased) Grandmother. She was avidly anti Britain entering the Common Market, apart from the fact that entry was being blocked by France. 'That DeGaull!!!!! We was good enough for 'im during the war blah, blah, blah'

As for a common language. Hmmmmm. Well, we apparently speak English here in Oz, as well as there in NZ and the USofA, yet I have been in a lab full of scientists from each of those countries, with a German and Yorkshireman thrown in for good measure, and I was the only person who could understand what each of them was saying, and was required to translate between them. Maybe learning Latin gave me this ability?

Good luck with the debate Mark. I guess my opinion is that you can instruct someone to speak English (or Esperanto, or Mandarin, or whateva) but you can't make him comprehensible.


Has anyone noticed the likeness between JR's and my avatars?

Taraforabit

Caroline

Oh how true

[Katharine]

In many ways I wish the English language was not called English. This small change would, in fact, make it more acceptable to many throughout the world. It is, de facto, the world language but its name ties it to one small but not insignificant country. The virtue of the English language is that it is surprisingly easy to speak badly yet still be understood (once you get beyond the pronunciation problems Caroline mentioned).

[Foureyes]

In many ways I wish the English language was not called English.

Gosh, there's a thought! If it was deemed necessary to remove any national/ethnic factors from the names of languages, the following would also have to be renamed: German, French, Latvian, Estonian, Swedish, Spanish, Portuguese, Malay, Japanese,..... need I go on? I suggest that there would be little point in renaming any of them and that the name "English" is something we are stuck with.

[Foureyes]

I should add, as a further contribution, that once, when in Germany my wife and I visited a large garden. The owner, a German, did not speak English and my wife, a very enthusiastic gardener, did not (at that time) speak German, so they then had a very lively discussion in Latin which both had learnt at school. I did not understand a word, but from what my wife told me afterwards, they had been able to conduct a detailed and thoroughly enjoyable exchange-of-views.

[J.R.]

Blimey JR, you are starting to sound like my (long deceased) Grandmother. She was avidly anti Britain entering the Common Market, apart from the fact that entry was being blocked by France. 'That DeGaull!!!!! We was good enough for 'im during the war blah, blah, blah'



Has anyone noticed the likeness between JR's and my avatars?

Taraforabit

Caroline

Sounds like your late Grandmother and I would have got on very well indeed. I have nothing against Europe at all - It's just the people.

As for the Common Market, or call it what you will - It's the biggest gravy train in the world, so full of corruption and red tape, it makes the present British Government look as if it's being run by Mother Theresa.

Please explain the avatar comment Caroline. I must admit to being a little muzzy headed this morning.

[Mrs C.]

The cat does appear to have the same expression on its face as you John

[J.R.]

That's because I'm a true cat person !

'Nuff said ???

[Mid A 15]

That's because I'm a true cat person !

'Nuff said ???

JR likes pussies

[icomefromalanddownunder]

In many ways I wish the English language was not called English. This small change would, in fact, make it more acceptable to many throughout the world. It is, de facto, the world language but its name ties it to one small but not insignificant country. The virtue of the English language is that it is surprisingly easy to speak badly yet still be understood (once you get beyond the pronunciation problems Caroline mentioned).

Oh, it goes way beyond differences in pronounciation

An Aussie colleague stayed with relatives of another colleague in Sheffield.

One evening, Chris' uncle told David, who had already declared that he was retiring to his room due to jetlag, that he was going to the pub and asked whether David wanted 'out'. ' No thanks', replied David 'I'm going to bed'.
'Aye Lad, but do you want out?'

'NO. ...............thank you'.

Durex, textas, thongs? Um, can't think of any others at this point.

Differences in sentence structure, the that/which 'debate'.

I'm not sure what I speak any more - occasional bits of Strine, the odd phrase picked up from my Battersea-bred Grandmother, Kiwi - very rarely, unless I'm speaking to someone who originated beneath The Long White Cloud.

Caroline

[icomefromalanddownunder]

The cat does appear to have the same expression on its face as you John

Precisely

And there is something about the stance, or head carriage too, I think.

Caroline