Politics

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, and is NON CH related - chat about the weather, or anything else that takes your fancy.

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loringa
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Re: Politics

Post by loringa »

Otter wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:20 am
sejintenej wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:35 pm
The UK Passport office seems to be interested in such people if they renew UK passports
I have a second passport due to ancestry; whenever I renew my British passport I have to provide a photocopy of every page of my other passport. It’s for anyone with dual/multiple nationality, not just Irish. But as the UK allows dual/multiple citizenship, I don’t really see the point in the exercise.
I have a brand new Irish passport courtesy of my late maternal grandfather. I applied for it once it became clear which way a small majority of my fellow British countrymen had voted in 2016. It took a while to sort out the relevant paperwork and get my Irish certificate on citizenship but the passport arrived promptly and I have used to travel from the UK to Australia and back without any problems. Unfortunately, as my entitlement is through a grandparent and I hadn't applied before a certain date in the 1990s I am unable to transfer this citizenship to my wife and daughter. Fortunately, they both hold Australian and British passports so we all have a Plan B for when Brexit finally happens.

I renewed my UK passport over the summer and was asked the dual nationality question, however, even though I answered in the affirmative I wasn't asked to send a copy of my Irish passport because they wanted the original (which I couldn't send as I was using it at the time). It didn't seem to cause any problems through and the new passport duly arrived though without the words European Union on the (still red) cover.

Passport renewal (along with car tax and driving licence) are all part of the Government's stealth tax policy. You no longer get the remaining time on your old passport added to your new one so I lost nearly six months as I needed a passport with at least six months remaining to travel back here. On a more positive note, when I renewed my driving licence, the DVLA could access my passport for the photo and signature so we are at lest becoming a bit more joined up.
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Re: Politics

Post by Katharine »

Andrew, I’ll be using my new Irish passport for the first time later this month. My sons are in the same position as you, they have an Irish born grandparent, but can’t pass the citizenship on to their children, as it never occurred to me it might be necessary to register my sons.
The only comment about getting the passport was from my referee, the local Rector. He said he was asked more questions than he’d ever been asked for a British passport. As I’m the church Treasurer he does know me quite well, so he could answer everything he was asked.
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Mid A 15
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Re: Politics

Post by Mid A 15 »

J.R. wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:30 pm OOOH. It's hold your breath time.

And not a recent word from Freaky !
I think he is still pumping out regular letters to 'The Guardian' and others.

Now the election has been announced he has more pressing matters than conversing with the likes of us I fancy.
Last edited by Mid A 15 on Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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loringa
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Re: Politics

Post by loringa »

Katharine wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:10 am The only comment about getting the passport was from my referee, the local Rector. He said he was asked more questions than he’d ever been asked for a British passport. As I’m the church Treasurer he does know me quite well, so he could answer everything he was asked.
My referee was the doctor wife of a friend out here in Kuwait and I don't think she had to answer any questions, none that she ever mentioned to me anyway. The only issue I had was that my grandfather died with a different name from the one on his birth certificate. Some time during his life the entire family double-barrelled their surnames (Smith) with their final Christian name (common to all - boys at least); he also transposed two of his Christian names (though possibly his father had entered them in the wrong order when registering his birth) and finally he had added 'Patrick' as his first Christian name. So the man born Ernest Sidney Seth SMITH died (and indeed married) as Patrick Sidney Ernest SETH-SMITH). No doubt the Irish lad arriving at Cheltenham College during World War I would have been immediately nick-named Paddy and it stuck throughout his life; none of his family ever knew it wasn't his real name as far as I know. Fortunately, this didn't seem overly to faze the Civil Servant in the Irish citizenship department who well may be used to this sort of thing happening with his fellow countryman and my explanation was deemed satisfactory.

Being known by different variations on his name has, however, caused a number of problems when looking for things like his Army records. Fortunately, a clever archivist with the Honourable Artillery Company was able to identify Trooper S Smith from 1920 as Lieutenant P Seth-Smith RAPC of 1939. Computers are wonderful things but sometimes paper records can tell you rather more about real people (and Burke's is always useful).
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Re: Politics

Post by Katharine »

Perhaps they didn't want the expense of phoning Kuwait!!!

My Katharine is spelt wrongly on one son's birth certificate, the son born in Islamabad I didn't go to register him, nobody gets away with spelling it wrongly if I'm around!
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Re: Politics

Post by sejintenej »

Katharine wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:10 am Andrew, I’ll be using my new Irish passport for the first time later this month. My sons are in the same position as you, they have an Irish born grandparent, but can’t pass the citizenship on to their children, as it never occurred to me it might be necessary to register my sons.
The only comment about getting the passport was from my referee, the local Rector. He said he was asked more questions than he’d ever been asked for a British passport. As I’m the church Treasurer he does know me quite well, so he could answer everything he was asked.
For the sake of anyone thinking of this, IF you are registered BEFORE the birth then your children are entitled.
In my case both parents were born in Ireland, one in each side of the border (though both were born well before partition). In fact even if they were born in the north after partition then they are still entitled to Republican citizenship
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
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Re: Politics

Post by sejintenej »

loringa wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:55 pm
The only issue I had was that my grandfather died with a different name from the one on his birth certificate.

Fortunately, this didn't seem overly to faze the Civil Servant in the Irish citizenship department who well may be used to this sort of thing happening with his fellow countryman and my explanation was deemed satisfactory.
I just happened to have my mother's long form birth certificate which solved a problem. When I applied for her birth certificate it came with a "wrong" second Christian name which I didn't recognise. The long form certificate had an addendum changing the 2nd name and when I went back by email they were quick to apologise send the corrected certificate. this bears out the second quote above. Very pleasant people to deal with.
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
loringa
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Re: Politics

Post by loringa »

Okay, so let's turn the subject back to Brexit which seems to be getting ever weirder by the day! Now that Boris appears to have sold Mrs May's deal to Parliament, albeit with a bit of a tweak on the backstop, The Farrago seems now to be calling on his wide-eyed loons to reject it. Has he seen the light and is about to reject Brexit? I think not, so what exactly is happening?

Now I do think that most Brexiteers recognise that Brexit will be be bad / very bad / dreadful / catastrophic (delete as appropriate) for the British economy but that doesn't seem to be changing many minds. A goodly number of Brexit supporters are obviously pensioners with their (admittedly limited) future protected by the triple lock on their pensions, but there are others who appear mainly to be located in the areas that will suffer most from our departure (like Port Talbot in South Wales). What, exactly, do these folk think they are going to get out of Brexit? I am making an assumption that no-one believes Boris's promise of a Brexit dividend of £350 million a week for the NHS and other good causes.

I keep getting asked by people out here: 'Why are you leaving the EU?' They know I can't answer convincingly and it is certainly not doing Brits' credibility much good at the moment even though I point out the the debates in parliament and the recourse to the courts are actually very positive evidence of democracy at work.

So, come on Brexiteers, explain what's in it for us in leaving the EU? I'll then be able to pass it on as none of (the admittedly very limited number) of my colleagues who support our leaving has been able to tell me.

Thanks
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Re: Politics

Post by Katharine »

I wish I knew the answer to your question! Our family is firmly remain, hence the new Irish passports!

It is very difficult to get any Leavers to answer how the EU cramped their freedoms, their choice always seems very nebulous based on freedom and sovereignty.

Please tell us more.
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Re: Politics

Post by scrub »

loringa wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:42 pmNow that Boris appears to have sold Mrs May's deal to Parliament, albeit with a bit of a tweak on the backstop, The Farrago seems now to be calling on his wide-eyed loons to reject it.
From what I gather, Johnson's deal is the one that May rejected on the grounds that it would likely lead to the breakup of the union, with a couple of paragraphs moved from the WA (legally binding) to the PD (non-legally binding).

Farage is against it because it's not his preferred version of Brexit. This is a bit odd when you remember that during the referendum campaign he was pushing a Norway/Switzerland model for Brexit success which, as a remain voter, I could live with if the alternative was a hard Brexit. Now he's all about a hard Brexit and nothing less than an immediate stop to any and all UK/EU agreements will do.
loringa wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:42 pmHas he seen the light and is about to reject Brexit? I think not, so what exactly is happening?
Oh, he's seen the light, but it's the limelight rather than a Damascene one. There's a lot of airtime between now and the 13th of December and I'm going to guess that he'll be spending as much time in it as possible declaring Johnson's Brexit to be soft, floppy, and untrustworthy, whereas his is hard, unwavering, and exactly what the UK deserves.

As to why? Money and ego stroking would be my best guess. He can make a lot more money out of being the voice of the "betrayed underdog" than he can sitting back, cracking a beer and lighting a smoke, and saying "job done" with a smile on his dial. For 20+ years as an MEP, that's been his spiel. He's not going to change now.
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J.R.
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Re: Politics

Post by J.R. »

I'm not getting involved too far !

As an 'Old Codger' from way back, I have always voted against, (Brexit). I have both personal and political reasons.

Looking at the possible options on the the coming ballot paper, I will probably have to vote Tory which I haven't done for some time.

I wouldn't trust any Lib Dem to baby-sit my cats even though I have voted for them in the past. They are now a 'sell-out' party.

The Marxist Labour Party ?? NO THANKS. Digitas would be more preferable.

The DUP, SNP, Greens etc etc ? School playgound poiticians, one and all

Bring back Screaming Lord Sutch. I'd probably vote for the Raving Monsters - After all, most MP's are closet Loonies today anyway.
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Re: Politics

Post by Otter »

I have never understood why it is viewed by some as Marxist to believe in the very CH-like ethos that your success in life should not be determined by who your parents are, who they know and how much money they have.
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Re: Politics

Post by Mid A 15 »

loringa wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:42 pm Okay, so let's turn the subject back to Brexit which seems to be getting ever weirder by the day! Now that Boris appears to have sold Mrs May's deal to Parliament, albeit with a bit of a tweak on the backstop, The Farrago seems now to be calling on his wide-eyed loons to reject it. Has he seen the light and is about to reject Brexit? I think not, so what exactly is happening?

Now I do think that most Brexiteers recognise that Brexit will be be bad / very bad / dreadful / catastrophic (delete as appropriate) for the British economy but that doesn't seem to be changing many minds. A goodly number of Brexit supporters are obviously pensioners with their (admittedly limited) future protected by the triple lock on their pensions, but there are others who appear mainly to be located in the areas that will suffer most from our departure (like Port Talbot in South Wales). What, exactly, do these folk think they are going to get out of Brexit? I am making an assumption that no-one believes Boris's promise of a Brexit dividend of £350 million a week for the NHS and other good causes.

I keep getting asked by people out here: 'Why are you leaving the EU?' They know I can't answer convincingly and it is certainly not doing Brits' credibility much good at the moment even though I point out the the debates in parliament and the recourse to the courts are actually very positive evidence of democracy at work.

So, come on Brexiteers, explain what's in it for us in leaving the EU? I'll then be able to pass it on as none of (the admittedly very limited number) of my colleagues who support our leaving has been able to tell me.

Thanks

I too have no wish to get overly involved in a discussion here but will explain briefly why I voted LEAVE myself and still adhere to that principle although, like many, I am in despair at the obfuscation and mendacity of our politicians across the spectrum since the referendum.

Where to start on such a vast topic?

I suppose a good place would be accountability or rather lack of it within the EU. It does not sit easily with me that the true Supreme Court of the UK is not the talking shop Baroness Hale recently presided over to thwart Boris Johnson but the ECJ (European Court of Justice).

https://www.europeanlawmonitor.org/eu-l ... l-law.html

It also concerns me that so much UK legislation originates in the unelected European Commission to be rubber stamped by a European Parliament in which UK representation is less than 10% only, https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/ ... -many-meps and then nodded through by House of Commons MPs by way of Statutory Instuments without scrutiny. https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-what ... uenced-eu/

I could elaborate further but will conclude this section by saying that I am a believer in the nation state as a manageable democratically accountable entity which is directly contrary to the well known 'ever closer union' ideals of the EU and its predecessors https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/docu ... xhibition/ In simplistic terms I do not want to be part of a POLITICAL European Union.

The EU has seeked to achieve further integration, aka ever closer union, historically via ECONOMIC means primarily. The Common Agricultural and Fisheries policies are arguably the best known examples but as time has gone on since we joined the original 'Common Market' back in 1972 virtually every industry and service has been affected by the EU and its predecessors to date.

Well over forty years of economic (and political) integration does mean that a pragmatic approach needs to be adopted to unravelling the UK from the EU if it does LEAVE in order to avoid any more disruption than is necessary to regain political freedom. My preferred option to achieve this would be to rejoin EFTA (European Free Trade Area), which the UK was a member of before joining the Common Market, as it would enable the UK to remain within the Single Market until such time as it may decide not to whilst simultaneously removing the UK from the shackles of the ECJ. Another bonus in this era of increasing globalisation would be the UK having its own independent seat on bodies making trade policy rather than being less than 10% (as exemplified by the UK share of the European Parliament mentioned above) of the EU seat.

The above is necessarily a brief explanation only of my thinking. If anyone is interested in reading a rather more articulate blog of LEAVE arguments this blog is interesting and generally well researched in my opinion: http://eureferendum.com/

As to how to vote in the forthcoming election, at this stage I honestly don't know. I am thoroughly disillusioned with them all and I am someone who has always had an interest in politics. A spoilt paper is probably favourite at the moment.
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J.R.
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Re: Politics

Post by J.R. »

Mid A 15 wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:50 pm
loringa wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:42 pm Okay, so let's turn the subject back to Brexit which seems to be getting ever weirder by the day! Now that Boris appears to have sold Mrs May's deal to Parliament, albeit with a bit of a tweak on the backstop, The Farrago seems now to be calling on his wide-eyed loons to reject it. Has he seen the light and is about to reject Brexit? I think not, so what exactly is happening?

Now I do think that most Brexiteers recognise that Brexit will be be bad / very bad / dreadful / catastrophic (delete as appropriate) for the British economy but that doesn't seem to be changing many minds. A goodly number of Brexit supporters are obviously pensioners with their (admittedly limited) future protected by the triple lock on their pensions, but there are others who appear mainly to be located in the areas that will suffer most from our departure (like Port Talbot in South Wales). What, exactly, do these folk think they are going to get out of Brexit? I am making an assumption that no-one believes Boris's promise of a Brexit dividend of £350 million a week for the NHS and other good causes.

I keep getting asked by people out here: 'Why are you leaving the EU?' They know I can't answer convincingly and it is certainly not doing Brits' credibility much good at the moment even though I point out the the debates in parliament and the recourse to the courts are actually very positive evidence of democracy at work.

So, come on Brexiteers, explain what's in it for us in leaving the EU? I'll then be able to pass it on as none of (the admittedly very limited number) of my colleagues who support our leaving has been able to tell me.

Thanks

I too have no wish to get overly involved in a discussion here but will explain briefly why I voted LEAVE myself and still adhere to that principle although, like many, I am in despair at the obfuscation and mendacity of our politicians across the spectrum since the referendum.

Where to start on such a vast topic?

I suppose a good place would be accountability or rather lack of it within the EU. It does not sit easily with me that the true Supreme Court of the UK is not the talking shop Baroness Hale recently presided over to thwart Boris Johnson but the ECJ (European Court of Justice).

https://www.europeanlawmonitor.org/eu-l ... l-law.html

It also concerns me that so much UK legislation originates in the unelected European Commission to be rubber stamped by a European Parliament in which UK representation is less than 10% only, https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/ ... -many-meps and then nodded through by House of Commons MPs by way of Statutory Instuments without scrutiny. https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-what ... uenced-eu/

I could elaborate further but will conclude this section by saying that I am a believer in the nation state as a manageable democratically accountable entity which is directly contrary to the well known 'ever closer union' ideals of the EU and its predecessors https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/docu ... xhibition/ In simplistic terms I do not want to be part of a POLITICAL European Union.

The EU has seeked to achieve further integration, aka ever closer union, historically via ECONOMIC means primarily. The Common Agricultural and Fisheries policies are arguably the best known examples but as time has gone on since we joined the original 'Common Market' back in 1972 virtually every industry and service has been affected by the EU and its predecessors to date.

Well over forty years of economic (and political) integration does mean that a pragmatic approach needs to be adopted to unravelling the UK from the EU if it does LEAVE in order to avoid any more disruption than is necessary to regain political freedom. My preferred option to achieve this would be to rejoin EFTA (European Free Trade Area), which the UK was a member of before joining the Common Market, as it would enable the UK to remain within the Single Market until such time as it may decide not to whilst simultaneously removing the UK from the shackles of the ECJ. Another bonus in this era of increasing globalisation would be the UK having its own independent seat on bodies making trade policy rather than being less than 10% (as exemplified by the UK share of the European Parliament mentioned above) of the EU seat.

The above is necessarily a brief explanation only of my thinking. If anyone is interested in reading a rather more articulate blog of LEAVE arguments this blog is interesting and generally well researched in my opinion: http://eureferendum.com/

As to how to vote in the forthcoming election, at this stage I honestly don't know. I am thoroughly disillusioned with them all and I am someone who has always had an interest in politics. A spoilt paper is probably favourite at the moment.
Thanks. It's almost like you"ve been reading my mind.

I won't go as far as spoiling my ballot paper though.
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loringa
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Re: Politics

Post by loringa »

J.R. wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:58 pm I'm not getting involved too far !

As an 'Old Codger' from way back, I have always voted against, (Brexit). I have both personal and political reasons.
Sorry JR - does this mean you voted against Brexit, ie remain? Your reply to Mid A 15's post indicates the opposite. Thanks
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