Mr Redshaw's Rednecks

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loringa
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Mr Redshaw's Rednecks

Post by loringa »

New thread as off-topic for Covid-19:
rockfreak wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 6:57 pm
Why do you assume that all working class people are rednecks? Rednecks come from all classes. There's an upper class redneck (ex-Bullingdon club) running the government at present.
I didn't - you did. I most certainly do not think for that all working class people are rednecks but it is a fair statement to make that most rednecks are working class. Why - because this is the generally accepted definition of 'Redneck': a poor white person without education, especially one living in the countryside in the southern US, who has prejudiced (= unfair and unreasonable) ideas and beliefs

This definition comes from the Cambridge English Dictionary: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... sh/redneck but others all give very similar definitions.

You may not like Mr Johnson but I have never, ever heard him called a redneck (a 'gammon' perhaps but not a redneck)! To be honest, I have never heard the term redneck used to refer to Britons of any background.

Incidentally, it was you who took a dig at the American working class with your smug and snobbish comment on their politics. I simply questioned why, for someone who seems so proud of his far left-wing credentials, you would choose to show such contempt for the real working class just because they are in another country. I suppose that rather sums up your version of the Labour movement; it's all to do with theorising in Hampstead drawing rooms and nothing to do with the problems that the less-well off actually face on a day-to-day basis. There is a reason, however misguided we may feel it to be, that these folk voted for Mr Trump. It is the same reason that marginalised people voted against their best interests for Brexit in places like Port Talbot and other industrialised / formerly industrialised areas in the UK. In the US, they are increasingly feeling that the American dream has passed them by and Mr Trump has promised to bring it back in reach. In the UK, by blaming all our woes on the EU, Mr Farage, Mr Johnson et al appealed to the same concerns. As a retiree, these are simply not problems you face Mr Redshaw but they are very real to those that do. Do not look down on them with contempt but try and emphasise with their fears.

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Re: Mr Redshaw's Rednecks

Post by Pe.A »

loringa wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 9:20 am
New thread as off-topic for Covid-19:
rockfreak wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 6:57 pm
Why do you assume that all working class people are rednecks? Rednecks come from all classes. There's an upper class redneck (ex-Bullingdon club) running the government at present.
I didn't - you did. I most certainly do not think for that all working class people are rednecks but it is a fair statement to make that most rednecks are working class. Why - because this is the generally accepted definition of 'Redneck': a poor white person without education, especially one living in the countryside in the southern US, who has prejudiced (= unfair and unreasonable) ideas and beliefs

This definition comes from the Cambridge English Dictionary: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... sh/redneck but others all give very similar definitions.

You may not like Mr Johnson but I have never, ever heard him called a redneck (a 'gammon' perhaps but not a redneck)! To be honest, I have never heard the term redneck used to refer to Britons of any background.

Incidentally, it was you who took a dig at the American working class with your smug and snobbish comment on their politics. I simply questioned why, for someone who seems so proud of his far left-wing credentials, you would choose to show such contempt for the real working class just because they are in another country. I suppose that rather sums up your version of the Labour movement; it's all to do with theorising in Hampstead drawing rooms and nothing to do with the problems that the less-well off actually face on a day-to-day basis. There is a reason, however misguided we may feel it to be, that these folk voted for Mr Trump. It is the same reason that marginalised people voted against their best interests for Brexit in places like Port Talbot and other industrialised / formerly industrialised areas in the UK. In the US, they are increasingly feeling that the American dream has passed them by and Mr Trump has promised to bring it back in reach. In the UK, by blaming all our woes on the EU, Mr Farage, Mr Johnson et al appealed to the same concerns. As a retiree, these are simply not problems you face Mr Redshaw but they are very real to those that do. Do not look down on them with contempt but try and emphasise with their fears.
Think about it, chaps.

Red. Necks. It's not going to refer to all people from lower-than-average backgrounds from all parts of the U.S. - just the Southern states. It's hotter down there. Incidentally Black people in the U.S. sort of have their own equivalent : Roughnecks.

And with regards to the Brexit vote in Wales, it was the retired English old-timers in Wales who made the difference.

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Re: Mr Redshaw's Rednecks

Post by scrub »

I'd always thought roughneck referred to riggers who, for the most part, have happily taken the name on. Didn't know it had other meanings.
Pe.A wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 1:43 am
And with regards to the Brexit vote in Wales, it was the retired English old-timers in Wales who made the difference.
I've heard that a lot, but besides being a nice story that lets people enjoy one of Wales' national pastimes (blaming the English), I really don't know how true it is. One side of my family is Welsh and although the last of my immediate relatives left the Valleys a couple of years ago, we've still got a load of extended family and friends there.
From our observations, the leave vote had a massive amount of support from working age/just retired 'my-family-was-here-before-the-mines' Welsh people. Maybe one or two of the people we know voted remain, the rest were leave and some actively campaigned for it.
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Re: Mr Redshaw's Rednecks

Post by Katharine »

scrub wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 10:56 am
I'd always thought roughneck referred to riggers who, for the most part, have happily taken the name on. Didn't know it had other meanings.
Pe.A wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 1:43 am
And with regards to the Brexit vote in Wales, it was the retired English old-timers in Wales who made the difference.
I've heard that a lot, but besides being a nice story that lets people enjoy one of Wales' national pastimes (blaming the English), I really don't know how true it is. One side of my family is Welsh and although the last of my immediate relatives left the Valleys a couple of years ago, we've still got a load of extended family and friends there.
From our observations, the leave vote had a massive amount of support from working age/just retired 'my-family-was-here-before-the-mines' Welsh people. Maybe one or two of the people we know voted remain, the rest were leave and some actively campaigned for it.
Whereas in my part of North Wales I didn't see a single Leave poster and the majority vote was Remain - we've had a lot of EU money spent here.
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Re: Mr Redshaw's Rednecks

Post by scrub »

Katharine wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:02 am
Whereas in my part of North Wales I didn't see a single Leave poster and the majority vote was Remain - we've had a lot of EU money spent here.
A ton of money has been spent in the south too. Last time my folks were there, not long after the referendum, they got into a number of arguments with the extended family, all of which started with "what have the EU ever done for us?". Got a bit feisty when my Dad started pointing to all the blue signs with a ring of yellow stars on them as they drove down the nice new main road that also had one of those big signs on it :lol: .

They said it was all a bit Life of Brian - "OK, but besides infrastructure improvements, support for the Welsh language, and other large scale investments, what have the EU ever done for us?".

Like I said though, that side of my family are all from Gwent or close by, which may explain things.
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Re: Mr Redshaw's Rednecks

Post by sejintenej »

Katharine wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:02 am

Whereas in my part of North Wales I didn't see a single Leave poster and the majority vote was Remain - we've had a lot of EU money spent here.
I can understand that, Katharine. If someone is totally pro something then they will do almost anything to enforce their way. I live in a very blue constituency but at election time the only posters which are torn down immediately they are put up are the blue ones. The area is ablaze with the Red Flag merchants and the "in-between we don't know where we are going" mob.

I had some concern about EU money being poured into projects. There is a huge one in Belgium which is proving a white elephant whilst my next door neighbour received 800 euros cash per hactare for putting maize seed on the ground (and the EU paid for the seed). There was no requirement for him to fertilise the soil nor to harvest it - only sow it. Another person we knew was paid an EU fortune to put bushes alongside the road! Those were both in France where they seemed to take the EU for a ride; I even got an official offer regarding woodland on my land - wow!
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Re: Mr Redshaw's Rednecks

Post by jhopgood »

My 85 year old aunt lives near Deal and a couple of years ago I visited and was chatting to her son in law. He claimed it was impossible to discuss Brexit in the area because of the number of London Pensioners who had retired to the North Foreland and were all belligerent Brexiteers.
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Re: Mr Redshaw's Rednecks

Post by rockfreak »

Back in the 1970s when I was writing on music I used to specialise in country music. It was a fascinating time because Willie Nelson and Waylon Jennings had just moved to Austin, Texas and set up what became known as the Outlaw Country movement and all sorts of new influences were being incorporated. But the traditional Nashville element and the more progressive new lot still viewed each other with a bit of suspicion. A fat guy named Johnny Russell recorded a celebratory song called 'Rednecks, White Socks and Blue Ribbon Beer' while in Austin Jerry Jeff Walker had the hippies whooping at his gigs with 'Up Against The Wall Redneck Mother'. Eventually a kind of truce was called and even Merle Haggard seemed to mellow with age. An excellent book on this period (in the unlikely event that any of you immensely serious, snotty English public school types actually like country music) is 'The Improbable Rise of Redneck Rock' by ex-Rolling Stone writer Jan Reid. Yi-haaaa!

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Re: Mr Redshaw's Rednecks

Post by loringa »

rockfreak wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:46 pm
An excellent book on this period (in the unlikely event that any of you immensely serious, snotty English public school types actually like country music) is 'The Improbable Rise of Redneck Rock' by ex-Rolling Stone writer Jan Reid. Yi-haaaa!
Well, you clearly do and, as that description would seem to apply to you as much as anyone else on this forum, I'm not sure it actually would be that much of a surprise.

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Re: Mr Redshaw's Rednecks

Post by sejintenej »

rockfreak wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:46 pm
in the unlikely event that any of you immensely serious, snotty English public school types actually like country music)
Cheeky generalisation.
Friday nights down t'pub it was standing space only if you could squeeze in. For a pint and a couple of quid in the bucket you got three hours of country by a group including a UK No 1 hit solo artist with a better backup group. Public school? but it was City slickers anyway There is definitely a market.
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Re: Mr Redshaw's Rednecks

Post by AMP »

Katharine wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:02 am
scrub wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 10:56 am
I'd always thought roughneck referred to riggers who, for the most part, have happily taken the name on. Didn't know it had other meanings.
Pe.A wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 1:43 am
And with regards to the Brexit vote in Wales, it was the retired English old-timers in Wales who made the difference.
I've heard that a lot, but besides being a nice story that lets people enjoy one of Wales' national pastimes (blaming the English), I really don't know how true it is. One side of my family is Welsh and although the last of my immediate relatives left the Valleys a couple of years ago, we've still got a load of extended family and friends there.
From our observations, the leave vote had a massive amount of support from working age/just retired 'my-family-was-here-before-the-mines' Welsh people. Maybe one or two of the people we know voted remain, the rest were leave and some actively campaigned for it.
Whereas in my part of North Wales I didn't see a single Leave poster and the majority vote was Remain - we've had a lot of EU money spent here.
That is the irony, just as in Sunderland and other places.
However I think a lot of welsh people blame the EU for the demise of their industries. Generous EU relocation packages were handed out, particularly in the Valleys.
Whether these (foreign) companies would necessarily have relocated out of the EU is another question.
Last edited by AMP on Fri May 22, 2020 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mr Redshaw's Rednecks

Post by AMP »

Let's not forget the North American Trailer Trash.

Can anyone explain the difference?

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Re: Mr Redshaw's Rednecks

Post by rockfreak »

sejintenej wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 8:37 am
rockfreak wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:46 pm
in the unlikely event that any of you immensely serious, snotty English public school types actually like country music)
Cheeky generalisation.
Friday nights down t'pub it was standing space only if you could squeeze in. For a pint and a couple of quid in the bucket you got three hours of country by a group including a UK No 1 hit solo artist with a better backup group. Public school? but it was City slickers anyway There is definitely a market.

Nowadays we're selling it back to America with Ward Thomas, a pair of twin girls from hillbilly Hampshire of all places who write great songs and have real country harmony voices. They have videos on You Tube.

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Re: Mr Redshaw's Rednecks

Post by Mid A 15 »

rockfreak wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:42 pm
sejintenej wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 8:37 am
rockfreak wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:46 pm
in the unlikely event that any of you immensely serious, snotty English public school types actually like country music)
Cheeky generalisation.
Friday nights down t'pub it was standing space only if you could squeeze in. For a pint and a couple of quid in the bucket you got three hours of country by a group including a UK No 1 hit solo artist with a better backup group. Public school? but it was City slickers anyway There is definitely a market.

Nowadays we're selling it back to America with Ward Thomas, a pair of twin girls from hillbilly Hampshire of all places who write great songs and have real country harmony voices. They have videos on You Tube.
I can vouch for the quality of Ward Thomas.

I was lucky enough to see Paul Simon in Hyde Park back in 2018 and Ward Thomas were one of the support acts. I was pleasantly surprised by just how good they were and have looked out for them since.
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Re: Mr Redshaw's Rednecks

Post by loringa »

AMP wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:00 pm
Let's not forget the North American Trailer Trash.

Can anyone explain the difference?
There are poor folk everywhere, and they are invariably looked down upon or condescended to by those that see themselves as superior. The term 'redneck', however, is traditionally used to describe less well-off, less-educated white folk in the Southern United States. Trailer-trash (po' white trash in the South) tend more towards the 'underclass' as, at least in my experience, most redneck' have respectable, blue-collar jobs. In the Southern US, white-trash definitely sit below rednecks in the pecking order. Most rednecks are proud to be rednecks; very few folk are proud to be white trash.

I had this all explained to me years ago by an American girlfriend (Sheriff's Department Police Sergeant) who definitely didn't see herself as a redneck by the way. Her explanation actually included the types of wrongdoing each groups was more likely to be involved in which I won't go into here but is explained pretty well in the original Dukes of Hazzard!
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