graham wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:53 pm
Racism absolutely exists in other countries and among other groups. The example of Chinese in Malaysia is a strong example and there are countless others.
What we have predominantly been discussing here in the context of the Black Lives Matter movement is the impact of institutional and systemic racism on Black Britons and Americans. Discussing this topic is not meant to imply that racism does not exist elsewhere, and the fact that racism exists elsewhere does not negate that this is a problem in our societies.
The question I pose to you is: Why are the numbers this way? My position is that systemic racism - preferential hiring of qualified Whites over qualified Blacks for these positions, lack of career advancement opportunities for Blacks, relative to Whites as well as myriad other biased practices - is this cause. There are alternative possible explanations. What position do you take? And what, if anything, do you think should be done to deal with this?
I correspond almost daily with Americans from across that country; even within the USA cultures are extremely varied and many that I have encountered have been very different from most UK cultures. Hence I think we have to consider the two countries differently and the US is so vast with so many different national origins. Most of the family of a Ukrainian friend have gone to the US and are part of a Ukraine community - not an American one because there is no single American community. By contrast I have worked face to face at various times with educated Americans from California, Florida and New York and they had the manners and ideas which would fit perfectly in London business - and a few actually did. OTOH discussing Bayou Creole - totally the opposite.
I assume you read what I wrote about the Jamaican applying for a job in Leytonstone?
To me a major factor is culture.
A company I know well was founded in the early 1600's by thre e men. Of course they had multiple descendants. It grew both organically and by takeover and there was and is intermarriage between the descendants of the original three and the descendants of those who founded and ran the taken over companies. I can speak only for the original three; one was the grandson of a Hugenot who fled France and all three were/ became Quakers. Quakers have a reputation of reliability and service. Until the 1990s that company's chairman has always been a descendant of one of the original three. He had, of course, served in the Army (Welsh Guards), in the Olympic movement and other public offices**. Although his family became C of E the concept of service was just as strong in him and other descendants as in his forebears.
Incidentally it was one of that family who fought for me and another pupil when the HM at CH (probably Seaman) decided to insult Her Majesty by refusing to allow me to answer a summons to Buck House. He had taken the voluntary oath of alliegence (? sp) and promised to arrange for me to take it - a requisite throughout the family and friends
**Because I was not making the expected progress I was hauled before him and lectured before he sent me off to another company to be employed! (I declined the move!) That is how the family looked after its own and friends.
I mentioned the Chinese. One overseas Chinese family I know of; the pressure on the children to do well and become highly qualified is immense but then the rewards were great.
Another emigrated to the USA. Of the four children one became a mining company owner and was also a qualified Federal auditor. Another became the youngest even person to be a qualified UK actuary - I think she was 19 at the time. She died many years ago. The third also died early. By comparison the fourth (who my wife went to school with) is a mere successful horticulturalist but her daughter and her husband are vice presidents and part owners of a company they built up and was just admitted to the "big board". Yes, they do employ non-Chinese but never marry.
This culture exists elsewhere; Indians and I suspect especially Sinds. I dealt with one Indian businessman who was almost bankrupted by circumstances beyond anyone's control. I was not worried because I knew that other businessmen of his persuasion would and did pay his debts because he was one of them. They still remained a very tight knit community - a matter of culture.
The Emir of Sokoto, a Moslem, adopted this culture amongst his subjects whilst Nigeria was part of the Empire. In consequence it turned out that those he had fostered and sent to university in England took all the top jobs because they were the best qualified. This was to cause problems possibly even now.
I had to deal with UK employment agencies and the rep for one of the biggest told me that employment agencies are involved in 10 to 15% of new hires. The rest come from word of mouth. When such a high proportion of jobs are filled by friends, relatives and other acquaintances how can there be widespread mixing? He had to find people who would fit in with me though he did not really know me well; I suspect that he would only put forward whites.
In fact where I finished up were were a real hotchpoch. Amongst the final 25 I think we had 15 nationalities, several colours including black and different religions including Moslems. My secretary was the only one not at least bilingual and at least two people spoke five or more different languages. Differences simply didn't matter; almost all the girls were invited to the wedding of one of them - an 8 hour Sikh ceremony - that was how the office operated.
The UK is beset by widely divergent cultures. There are those like Cadbury and Peabody who strive to help their employees and those around and those like the Indian man who ran a highly successful sweatshop in the midlands. We are beset by language; I understand that there are schools in London where incoming pupils speak over 100 different languages; we need to do a France and make the use of Oxbridge English and only
Oxbridge English compulsory from birth because until everybody speaks the same language we will always be a nation of different peoples. THEN we can start to create a homogenous society
Even within white British of apparently British ancestry I have seen stupidity. There is a branch of a huge nationwide and I think multinational, a branch of which had a viewing platform over;looking the London Olympic site. Talking to a manager before the Olympic games he was expecting to be overrun by people who had come to the games - understandable. I then asked how many of his staff could speak a foreign language;he thought that there might be one "downstairs" who spoke an Eastern European language and that was all!. A very British clothing retailer in Regent Street had signs in Japanese all over but had no Japanese speakers. By contrast a friend runs a small French wine domaine; all his staff speak English, most Spanish and I know of some who speak Polish and Russian. He employs a Chinese for the language.
Talk about not-so-good examples! We need to set our own house in order before we tell others to behave like us or should we copy the often violent ways of the Jamaicans?
Don't worry; I have already put on my flak jacket.