"ALL GIRLS TOGETHER"

Share your memories and stories from the Hertford Christ's Hospital School, which closed in 1985, when the two schools integrated to the Horsham site....

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Re: "ALL GIRLS TOGETHER"

Post by Jo »

The end of term reports were "interviews", and we had to do our prep in house on interview nights, and be called in turn to see DR. I remember standing outside nervously, polishing up the fronts of my shoes on the back of the opposite socks. It could be disheartening because it wasn't a discussion, it was just DR's pronouncements, which were to be taken as final. To be fair, she would have consulted the staff, but I remember very firmly being "told" things, like fra828, even though I knew they weren't true.

I also remember getting cr*p marks from DR for Old Testament scripture, and being accused of not trying. One week I inexplicably did better. "You see, you can do it if you try", DR said, to which I replied that I didn't know what I had done differently that made this week's essay better than last week's. Opinion about her abilities as headmistress were divided - I thought she was excellent at the time, though I am reconsidering with hindsight - but I really don't think she was a very good teacher at all.

And I couldn't agree more about the main problem - I think I've said elsewhere that the quality of the housemistresses, and the lack of pastoral care, was quite shocking.
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Re: "ALL GIRLS TOGETHER"

Post by Fjgrogan »

Yes Jo, you have put your finger on it - lack of pastoral care. Presumably house/wardmistresses were intended to be in loco parentis, so if you had a problem with them there was nowhere else to go; it was not like going home at the end of a bad day at school and sounding off to Mum about how awful the teachers were at school! Presumably Miss West actually chose these women, which says very little for her understanding of the needs of teenage girls, and then had to back them when they got it all wrong. I remember dreading the end of term interviews (and the shoe-polishing!), but strangely cannot remember any specific thing that I was told then. And I remember that Scripture lessons consisted largely in learning by heart chunks of the Old Testament - not exactly good teaching; it was just as well that we were not entered for external exams in Scripture/RE/RK or whatever it was being called then. I am surprised to find though that over forty years later I can still recite the whole of Isaiah 53 - not that there is a great deal of demand for such a skill! To get back to pastoral care - I found that it tended to happen in reverse - there were one or two of the teaching staff who were prepared to listen when I needed to sound off about my wardmistress, whilst still not actually stepping over that line and agreeing with me that she was cruel etc. Miss Mercer was one of them and years later I found out from her what she really thought of Miss Jenkins. Also much later I heard some enlightening comments from Miss Jukes and Miss Wilson, which I would never have expected. But that was the norm in those days - staff would stick together against the onslaught of pupils, otherwise they felt they would lose their authority. I do believe (from later experience) that I was suffering at school from what would nowadays be diagnosed as clinical depression, but the prevailing attitude was get up and get on with it - the stiff upper lip! Unfortunately my parents also believed implicitly that teachers were always right, so if i was constantly in trouble it must be my fault - teachers to them were authority figures whom one did not question. Times have changed perhaps too far in the other direction in that now if a child is disciplined at school the teacher is liable to be beaten up by an irate parent. I also think that the strict hierarchy of seniority among pupils was slightly odd. Even someone in your own year who was a few weeks older than you had authority over you, and again this was a jealously guarded privilege, so seniors would support each other against juniors even when mistakes were made; but at least somehow that felt more fair and understandable than the unstable whims of certain wardmistresses.
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Re: "ALL GIRLS TOGETHER"

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My fear is that some of us (through having been educated to a higher level than our peers elsewhere in local schools) are now straying into judging the past by today's standards. Yes it was a spartan regime, and some housemistresses were undoubtedly guilty of some brutalities, but 'Pastoral Care' was not a known term in the 1950's and 60's when I was at Hertford. Similarly (linking to Munch's thread about a Hertford Book....) we were as well fed at Hertford as we might have been in any other school at the time - and probably better (even though we now remember ghastly elements). We all grew up relatively fit and well - and to come back to Miss West, some of that is due to her own personal intervention in ensuring that we had fresh oranges (for which I believe she paid herself).But she is no longer here to confirm whether or not that is the truth.
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Re: "ALL GIRLS TOGETHER"

Post by anniexf »

After I left CH I almost didn't get a place at the grammar school my parents applied to: at the interview the headmistress said that normally no-one with such mediocre O-Level results as mine would have been allowed to take A-Levels. When I told her I'd been ill, she decided to take a chance on me. I began to win prizes for English, and eventually got the kind of A-Level results that would have existed only in the realms of my fantasy at CH. So much for receiving a higher standard of education at CH than my peers at local schools!

I don't think I'm judging the past by present-day standards, e.g. when my daughter was born in 1968, my mother asked if I was considering CH for her. I was horrified that this possibility could even enter her head after what she'd seen me suffer. I told her that there was absolutely no way I'd put a child of mine through that. Oddly, when my daughter was at Keble a contemporary of hers was Charles Hazlewood!

Afterthoughts:
1. Also when I was 17 I spent the entire summer after A-Levels in France, staying with various families for 3 months, thanks to an LCC Language Scholarship which I got when the original winner dropped out. When you consider that at the very same time, 1961, my peers at CH were having to ask permission to go past the front gates in pairs ... well, it does point up the differences !
2. In case you don't recognise the name, Charles Hazlewood is that ubiquitous conductor & music-programme-maker, mostly for BBC2, who was at Housey.
Last edited by anniexf on Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "ALL GIRLS TOGETHER"

Post by olefours »

Kerren, I so agree that it's not useful heaping blame on anyone at this distance. Probably DR, teaching staff and wardmistresses all did their best.
I certainly blame myself for never giving my parents my honest opinion of CH, because they were so proud of my having gained a place there.
I also ask myself why the LCC never came to Hertford to find out why some of their scholarship girls went from being among the top students in London, according to the eleven plus exam, to mediocre achievers.
My primary education in a poor area of south east London was wonderful. Classes of forty wrote accurately and imaginatively, studied geometry as well as arithmetic, learnt French, studied biology in the local park, acted and created all kinds of artwork, and loved learning. My brain was fizzing at eleven, and hit the buffers at CH. I feel we were poorly educated compared to family and friends at local 'day' grammar schools. Perhaps I was particularly unlucky in my teachers at CH.
We were certainly physically fit, but some of us were turned out, as Miss Richards marked me in possibly the most humiliating experience of my life (I know this has been discussed in another thread) educationally and emotionally below standard..
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Re: "ALL GIRLS TOGETHER"

Post by Katharine »

kerrensimmonds wrote: and to come back to Miss West, some of that is due to her own personal intervention in ensuring that we had fresh oranges (for which I believe she paid herself).But she is no longer here to confirm whether or not that is the truth.
We had a wonderful malapropism from Miss Jenkins the first time the oranges appeared at tea - they had been given by a unanimous donor! For all her many faults, the Hag's use of English could be wondrous at times. I just wish I could remember more examples.

I agree with Kerren that things were very different then from now, I believe that the majority of staff thought they were doing the right thing. I don't think it was the done thing to praise at all, it would not have been good for us. Nowadays we know differently and know that is the way to achieve in teaching praise the good work and give encouragement over the weaker work.

When I was teaching in Brunei, 89 - 92, I was the only European member of staff, the rest were mainly Malaysian or Indian. In many of my attitudes I was very much at odds with my colleagues - the majority of them could have fitted into the Hertford staffroom of the 60s, the reports they wrote were so negative. Some of them found it difficult to believe the results I was achieving with my pupils, some of whom still write to me.
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Re: "ALL GIRLS TOGETHER"

Post by midget »

Katharine wrote:
kerrensimmonds wrote: and to come back to Miss West, some of that is due to her own personal intervention in ensuring that we had fresh oranges (for which I believe she paid herself).But she is no longer here to confirm whether or not that is the truth.
We had a wonderful malapropism from Miss Jenkins the first time the oranges appeared at tea - they had been given by a unanimous donor! For all her many faults, the Hag's use of English could be wondrous at times. I just wish I could remember more examples.

.
In the 40s/50s we had Mrs Cotham (2s) and her "Cottyisms" Taking prep, " the next girl that drops her pencil box will get an Order report" Naturally all the geometry boxes were "dropped" to the floor.
"You over there" (looking to the left but pointing to the right) "stop scratching your head"
At a time when the school seemed to have more cats than usual, a Notice appeared on the back door of 2s "CATS KEEP THIS DOOR SHUT"

It was also claimed that at prayers one evening, the reader said "and the Lord said unto Moses" and Mrs C interrupted "Rosemary Esch stop swinging your legs"

We never got anything like that in 3s.
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Re: "ALL GIRLS TOGETHER"

Post by kerrensimmonds »

Poor Rosemary! She lives in Devon (Budeigh Salterton) - are you nearby Maggie?
On my singing holiday two weeks ago, I came across someone from Buldeigh Salterton who knows Rosemary. It's a very small world!
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Re: "ALL GIRLS TOGETHER"

Post by Fjgrogan »

Annie was horrified at her mother's suggestion of putting her daughter through the same experiences at Hertford. However I did choose to send both my daughters to CH and I don't think they have ever regretted it. Maria, the eldest, contributes to this forum, so I am open to correction is she disagrees! There has even been a hint that she might consider sending her own children there, although it is far too early yet to think seriously about that. The main difference was that both my girls are extraverts, which I am not, and they were more capable of standing up for themselves than I had been. In fact it was interesting to see when Kirri started a year earlier than usual that Maria used to watch out for Kirri if there was the slightest hint of anyone bullying her, although at home they constantly fought each other. Also both girls actively wanted to go to CH, in spite of having seen quite a bit of it when I used to take them along with me to Old Girls Days. Maria actually failed her first two attempts at admission but gained a place in a good local grammar school, but because of a quirk in the admission dates there was a six week overlap in the admission ages, during which her birthday fell so she was allowed a third attempt. We saw no point in her trying again, but she wanted to and finally got in from the waiting list, so went straight into the second year; that is how keen she was to go there! Obviously we would never have forced her to go if she did not already want to. However the school then was quite different from how it had been in my time - no more Miss West or Miss Jenkins. In spite of all my complaining the problem was not the system, it was the personnel; so I had no qualms about my daughters' welfare. They were both involved in the merger and move to Horsham, which gave them yet wider opportunities, and for today's pupils there are still greater opportunities. Who knows what it will be like in my grandchildren's day in terms of everyday life and opportunities? But one thing will remain the same, I believe, and that is the underlying ethos, and I would be proud to have my grandchildren grow up with the principles which I think I and my children gained from CH, but that choice is not for me to make!
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Re: "ALL GIRLS TOGETHER"

Post by Jo »

kerrensimmonds wrote:My fear is that some of us (through having been educated to a higher level than our peers elsewhere in local schools) are now straying into judging the past by today's standards. Yes it was a spartan regime, and some housemistresses were undoubtedly guilty of some brutalities, but 'Pastoral Care' was not a known term in the 1950's and 60's when I was at Hertford. Similarly (linking to Munch's thread about a Hertford Book....) we were as well fed at Hertford as we might have been in any other school at the time - and probably better (even though we now remember ghastly elements). We all grew up relatively fit and well - and to come back to Miss West, some of that is due to her own personal intervention in ensuring that we had fresh oranges (for which I believe she paid herself).But she is no longer here to confirm whether or not that is the truth.
I don't think it's really about blaming anyone Kerren. As you say, that was how things were then. I think what I find sad, when I look back to my lonely, lost 10 year old self, is that there was no-one, in a house of 37 girls, who was truly "in loco parentis". No-one who really cared how your day was, no-one to buck you up if you felt down, no-one to praise you if you'd done well. Parents were too far away to be able to give that immediate feedback in those days (mobile phones would have made such a difference :)). That might not have been anyone's fault, but no-one, no-one is going to tell me that that is a normal way for a child to grow up. It will have left a scar on every one of us, perhaps not as obvious as depression. I'm still only just realising what some of my scars are, and trying to deal with them, though I am managing to forgive CH in the process.
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Re: "ALL GIRLS TOGETHER"

Post by englishangel »

LIke Jo I was liked by DR and aimed to please, I (nearly ) always volunteered and strictly observed the 11th Commandment. This paid off in later years when if I could get away with stuff that girls with a 'bad' reputation couldn't.

Twice I got earache from DR at my end of term report. The first time was Easter 1968 when she told me m behaviour had 'deteriorated' and I didn't appear to be listening. Interesting, because my beloved Grandma had died over the Christmas holidays and I had told my parents that on no account was the school to be informed as I knew an announcement would be made I I would have to endure difficult silences etc.

The second time was when I refused to be confirmed (because I wasn't C of E) and she was most 'disappointed'.
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Re: "ALL GIRLS TOGETHER"

Post by olefours »

You make me so sad with your picture of girls without pastoral care, Jo. No wonder there was bullying.
We were lucky in 4s. Mrs Clarke meant well, but was frightened of 'top management' and didn't really fit: I don't think she was religious, she plucked her eyebrows (which DR told us never to do), she dressed smartly, was terrified of French teas (talking French, not eating gateaux), and probably didn't feel she could act independently on behalf of her charges, though she seemed emboldened by her friendship with Miss Shackleton.
The only really warm and protective house mistress I remember was Mrs Wiell/Weill in Threes, whose charges loved her; most of the other HMs seemed emotionally deprived themselves (Miss Robertson in Ones, Miss MacTier, Miss Norris). Goodness knows what life was like in Twos where fiery 'Fanny' Winstone reigned.
Some aspects of life for children now are awful, but at least people talk about their feelings, and some children can complain and change their circumstances. As you say, Jo, mobile phones (and emails) would have been wonderful. We had to leave our letters home unsealed for censoring - not so easy with email.
Instant communication with families was impossible, and by the time we got home for the holidays most of us probably didn't want to talk or think about school.
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Re: "ALL GIRLS TOGETHER"

Post by anniexf »

olefours wrote:Goodness knows what life was like in Twos where fiery 'Fanny' Winstone reigned.
Paula's novel gives a vivid, if painful account of what life was like for her in 2s under Mrs. Winstone. We in 8s had Mrs. Coveney, a very proper & somewhat distant lady of the twinset & tweed skirt variety. She was ok but I wouldn't have dreamed of trying to confide in her. I think she found it difficult to relate to girls from my background. Unfortunately she went into deep shock after a girl chucked herself out of the boxroom window, & never returned. The girl did though, eventually.
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Re: "ALL GIRLS TOGETHER"

Post by fra828 »

I don't think it's really about blaming anyone Kerren. As you say, that was how things were then. I think what I find sad, when I look back to my lonely, lost 10 year old self, is that there was no-one, in a house of 37 girls, who was truly "in loco parentis". No-one who really cared how your day was, no-one to buck you up if you felt down, no-one to praise you if you'd done well. Parents were too far away to be able to give that immediate feedback in those days (mobile phones would have made such a difference :)). That might not have been anyone's fault, but no-one, no-one is going to tell me that that is a normal way for a child to grow up. It will have left a scar on every one of us, perhaps not as obvious as depression. I'm still only just realising what some of my scars are, and trying to deal with them, though I am managing to forgive CH in the process.[/quote]

I really agree Jo; I think we now and again confided in other girls who we were close to in the house, but even tho Mrs Gardiner, 8's housemistress at the time, was ok in alot of ways (sounds similar to 8's a decade earlier, anniexf), she wasn't that approachable. Thanks to a postal strike in the early 70's-poss 1971, pay-phones were installed in the science block. I remember the initial excitement and queues, clutching our new 10p's; Britain had just gone decimal. We got a precious 3mins before the pips went, and sometimes a bit longer if the operator was feeling generous! I think the dialling codes had only started in a few places then. We still wrote home weekly tho. I have always liked writing letters and I wrote pages of goodness knows what!
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Re: "ALL GIRLS TOGETHER"

Post by Fjgrogan »

Possibly the reason that Mrs Weil in threes was different is that she was an Old Girl herself, so knew how it felt?
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