Who Knew What?

This section was setup in August 2018 in order to move the existing related discussions from other sections into this new section to group them together, and separate from the other CH-related topics.

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postwarblue
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Re: Who Knew What?

Post by postwarblue » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:15 pm

Trevor Hoskins was in Col B about six years ahead of me. He left 1949 IIRC.
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Re: Who Knew What?

Post by TMF » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:36 pm

Well - there were some questions about a refund of fees - here is what I would suggest. Return to pupils or their parents the average fees paid for their time at the school (this takes care of the variable nature of fees). The school can then say they have done something concrete. This would not cost the school too much - they would be paying the original amounts not inflation adjusted amounts. Pupils who have no concerns or more concerns can simply not accept the payment. The school might have to sell the ancient silver. The various people who have had their lives turned upside down by the weak people the school allowed to prey on children would have some small token compensation. The number of cases currently known is probably only 5% of what actually happened. The school can either block its way to oblivion - or get ahead of the situation.

Hence, in my view, it should issue a no fault payment to pupils (as above), analyze the extent of the problem properly (e.g. drawing up a list of the career trajectory and residence time of all teachers).

It is interesting that you can see several 'types' of response on this site. Some people knew that there was something wrong with the school, knew that various master were perverts, and wanted out as soon as possible. Others seem to accept a little pedophilia, excessive caning, and bullying as being norms of the time (this seems to be a minority view at present). And there are a fair number of people who saw nothing or do not remember what was happening. Some people went on sailing holidays with convicted sex offenders, went on pub crawls with teachers, listened to hundreds of people shouting Pedo! and the top of their lungs, and did not see a problem. That text probably looks a little accusatory - it is not meant to be - it is just an observation. There are diverse responses to the events at the school - one can read it in the messages above.

So, there are diverse reactions - and perhaps memories are not perfect. From my point of view (and one of the good things about this site is that it provides a mechanism where people can get things off their chests). I thought that the school was not a nice place. I didn't enjoy the bullying. I was skeptical of the masters - whom I generally regarded as pathetic individuals. I tended to bully people occasionally - to avoid being picked on myself - so that was cowardly and I don't like to think about that a great deal now. I also very much regret the fact that the school knew that Webb (et al) were not fit for purpose - but enabled them - and I suspect that the root of the problem was the headmaster.
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Re: Who Knew What?

Post by sejintenej » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:53 am

Whilst I accept TMF's suggestion (and this might be too late) why hs the school not found experts who could try to help the victim's mental states as the are victims are identified? Rob has graphically enumerated the results of what the school allowed to happen so they should do everything posible to reduce the ongoing effects.
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Re: Who Knew What?

Post by bakunin » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:20 pm

TMF wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:07 pm
The 1970s school doctor published a paper in 1979 in the 'Practitioner' titled 'Collaboration between psychiatrist and doctor in a boys' boarding school' (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/482232)

Hoskins was an Old Blue, of course, and familiar with boys boarding school matters and masters. It would be interesting to know more about this collaboration - anyone have access to a university library?
Finally got round to photographing the journal over in the Health Sciences Library here in Seattle... Hope you find it interesting! I haven't read it yet, about to take a look now...

https://imgur.com/a/dZ3Kc7s
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Re: Who Knew What?

Post by TMF » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:39 pm

Wow - thank you - that is an interesting article. Hoskins says that he referred between 6 and 9 pupils per year to a psychiatrist. He discusses the types of problems that boys had and draws particular attention to boys who have lost their fathers 'A typical history is that the father has died or left the marital home...' and goes on to describe that in such situations the pupil runs away from school to protect the mother. Hoskins does not link the behavior of what might be called vulnerable children to abuse by teachers - instead he puts some column inches into pointing fingers at parents and the economy.
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Re: Who Knew What?

Post by Golfer » Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:33 pm

TMF wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:36 pm
Well - there were some questions about a refund of fees - here is what I would suggest. Return to pupils or their parents the average fees paid for their time at the school (this takes care of the variable nature of fees). The school can then say they have done something concrete. This would not cost the school too much - they would be paying the original amounts not inflation adjusted amounts. Pupils who have no concerns or more concerns can simply not accept the payment. The school might have to sell the ancient silver. The various people who have had their lives turned upside down by the weak people the school allowed to prey on children would have some small token compensation. The number of cases currently known is probably only 5% of what actually happened. The school can either block its way to oblivion - or get ahead of the situation.
Blimey. This would accelerate the path down which the school becomes ANO public school - losing its distinct charateristics. And lead to massive complaints on this forum.

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Re: Who Knew What?

Post by J.R. » Sat Aug 25, 2018 5:51 pm

So, reading the above posts about Dr Hoskins, I now have to take it that Dr Scott had no such psychiatric experience or knowledge.

My personal view of 'Tommy' Scott was, "I can cure illnesses and warts, but I don't do 'personal problems'". Yes - I was a disturbed child at CH at 11 years of age. My father died when I was 7 and then I was sent away and abandoned, or so I thought by my mother.

"You have personal problems ? Then sort them out yourself !" That was CH in the late 1950's.

I could go on a lot further, but that would muddy the waters even further.
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Re: Who Knew What?

Post by LHA » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:02 pm

bakunin wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:20 pm
TMF wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:07 pm
The 1970s school doctor published a paper in 1979 in the 'Practitioner' titled 'Collaboration between psychiatrist and doctor in a boys' boarding school' (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/482232)

Hoskins was an Old Blue, of course, and familiar with boys boarding school matters and masters. It would be interesting to know more about this collaboration - anyone have access to a university library?
Finally got round to photographing the journal over in the Health Sciences Library here in Seattle... Hope you find it interesting! I haven't read it yet, about to take a look now...

https://imgur.com/a/dZ3Kc7s
Murray Cox (referenced at the end of the article )was a consultant psychiatrist at Broadmoor throughout the period he appears to have worked at Christ's Hospital. Not sure the article particularly strongly protects the confidentiality of the authors' patients either.

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Re: Who Knew What?

Post by harryh » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:40 pm

Murray Cox had a practice in Harley Street in the 1970s.
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Re: Who Knew What?

Post by TMF » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:06 pm

Blimey. This would accelerate the path down which the school becomes ANO public school - losing its distinct charateristics. And lead to massive complaints on this forum.
No not really. And, by the way, the school has absolutely no interest in the views on this forum - as far as I can see.

The school was marketed as a place where pupils received benefits. Actually pupils received bullying, corporal punishment, and the vulnerable were preyed upon by sexual abusers. The abuse was hushed up by various people for various reasons for decades (e.g. Newsome did not want his corporal punishment predilection to become more widely known, some masters shrugged their shoulders and said 'well innocent until proven guilty' & 'lucky there is no need for _me_ to be a whistleblower', and carried on with their crossword puzzles). This was supposed to be a school that taught good character to its pupils.

The school has assets of 400m pounds - it can absolutely afford to demonstrate to the world and to itself that it is not a fraudulent operation.

All that happens if the school does not do this - is that the next scandal is more catastrophic when it hits (and the current lawsuits, movies, articles in the press, etc. more devastating for the current scandal when they arrive). The current headmaster was a teacher when various offenders 'suddenly departed' - this 'sudden departure syndrome' was known to all members of staff ('there were others', as one ex-member of staff recently said on this forum). This is all going to come very much into the public domain - and there will be no mitigating circumstances that people can hide behind. The school should immediately act to say that systematically preying on vulnerable pupils is appalling and it recognizes that this occurred in the past. The school is determined that this will never happen again. It has made all of its records available to independent investigators, it supports criminal prosecutions, a number of people who could have done more at the time but did nothing have resigned, and it is refunding the average fees it took in past years to parents and pupils - to those that would like to accept such a payment - in recognition of the fact that its charitable purpose at the time was not served by the school at the time.

Or the school can continue to play for time and people can try to divert attention to other topics - which perversely (no pun intended) is more likely to lead to the school's demise.
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Re: Who Knew What?

Post by Golfer » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:29 pm

It can afford nothing.
It is on the slide to becoming another public school.
CH RIP

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Re: Who Knew What?

Post by richardb » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:32 pm

Golfer wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:29 pm
It can afford nothing.
It is on the slide to becoming another public school.
CH RIP
If the whole issue of sexual abuse cause it to slide further then it is all self inflicted.

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Re: Who Knew What?

Post by Golfer » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:36 pm

Too true - I am rewriting my will tomorrow. There is no point giving to a failed institution.
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Re: Who Knew What?

Post by CodFlabAndMuck » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:22 pm

Is there a full intake in September?

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Re: Who Knew What?

Post by harryh » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:26 pm

Completely. Largest 2nd Form intake for 2 years.
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