Dobbie's departure

[sejintenej]

CofE or the Church of Rome are just as bad as each other

-

Just look at the Council of Nicaea - a biased cockup from day 1. That was where they banned women and a lot of the Gospels and it was all arranged by the Roman emperor Constantine. This sems to have been the start of the downhill fall ending in the excommunication in 1054 of all RC popes and all RCs until about 1965

[Golfer]

CofE or the Church of Rome are just as bad as each other as far as kiddy fiddling and mental abuse is concerned.

I just can't go with this as an historian.
Luther's marriage to Katharina van Bora, a former nun, paved the way for protestant and CofE priests to set an example to their congregation of monogamous marriage.
I accept that there is a small CofE wing that is High Church and apes Rome. A former CH Head and historian, David Newsome, documents the start of this movement in his book on Newman.
But it is definitely not the mainstream.

[sejintenej]

CofE or the Church of Rome are just as bad as each other as far as kiddy fiddling and mental abuse is concerned.

I just can't go with this as an historian.
Luther's marriage to Katharina van Bora, a former nun, paved the way for protestant and CofE priests to set an example to their congregation of monogamous marriage.
I accept that there is a small CofE wing that is High Church and apes Rome. A former CH Head and historian, David Newsome, documents the start of this movement in his book on Newman.
But it is definitely not the mainstream.

Tim. I am having problems following your argument. Golfer seems to be referring to the actions of RC and C of E priests and monks etc. against those under their influence, often children and unwed mothers. Yes, there is an argument that people are being brainwashed by the churches but what victim can even accept that? Certainly, from what I saw in Cataluna under Franco many of those people were brainwashed and from what I have seen it occurred in Eire but elsewhere?

As to your reference to Luther et al if we go way back in the history of Christianity women appear to have had an importany role until the council of Nicaea when it was decreed that priests and deacons could not marry. Indeed it was ordained that bishops could not allow females in their dwellings! At that time there were five separate centres of Christianity, Rome being just one of them and their split with Rome occurred long after Nicaea.

I am not up to date on Christianity after about 1206 when Dominic de Guzman effectively started the organisation which became the Spanish Inquisition. Therefore I will not comment upon the decision to allow Protestant clergy to marry. However, it is interesting that we should more and more hear suggestions that Jesus Christ was himself married (as would befit an elder in the Jewish synagogue).

[Golfer]

I'll let others more intellectually endowed than me reply to your awesome post.

[TMF]

Is there a pattern? Divert a thread to another topic and then have the discussion stop - i.e. deflect and block(?) This tends to happen on questions about what was said about teachers who departed suddenly, reporting to authorities, and similar historical rules, actions and inactions.

Generally the next comment will be: 'it was complicated', 'a different country', 'conspiracy theory', 'dedication', 'impractical', 'richer site for the contribution', 'emotions naturally run high', 'extraordinary exercise in social mobility', etc.

But every now and again, a contributor provides an insight into what happened...I suppose that is useful if one wants to understand this particular history. And, of course, shutting down the thread is useful if you prefer the history not to be understood.