Roger Martin

This section was setup in August 2018 in order to move the existing related discussions from other sections into this new section to group them together, and separate from the other CH-related topics.

Moderator: Moderators

CodFlabAndMuck
GE (Great Erasmus)
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:55 pm
Real Name: J Eabnvu
Has thanked: 63 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: Roger Martin

Post by CodFlabAndMuck » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:39 am

richardb wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:09 pm
LHA wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:08 pm
anyone seen any press coverage?
Not a word.
Maybe there has been an adjournment and reporting restrictions until a trial date can be set?

User avatar
Mid A 15
Button Grecian
Posts: 3096
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 1:38 pm
Real Name: Claude Rains
Location: The Patio Of England (Kent)
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Re: Roger Martin

Post by Mid A 15 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:40 am

LHA wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:27 am
harryh wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:51 pm
LHA wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:30 pm
not even a cut and paste from Simon Reid
Embarrassing and cheap.
I wonder what the purpose of you being on this forum is Howard? You seem more concerned to defend every tiny act of Simon Reid (and yes, I'm right to criticise, if all the school can be bother to do after each court case is a cut and paste then at least that should have happened with Martin's latest appearance) than to consider how the decades of abuse were allowed to continue unchecked.

I'm afraid my recollection of you being a decent man must have been mistaken. You disgust me.
Charles I normally like your posts but you're way out of line attacking Howard as you have even though he is big enough and ugly enough to defend himself.

Howard had Burr as a junior housemaster, was possibly taught by Webb, played cricket with Karim and worked with Husband and Dobbie. Roger Martin was also a master when Howard was a pupil.

His opinion is therefore as valid and informed, if not more so, than any other 'non victim' and adds to the forum.

I was in the same house as Howard for two years so knew him well and I can guarantee he is as repulsed and disgusted as any of us by these awful events and will want the School to accept accountability and responsibility where applicable once the dust settles.

However, being the decent man he is, Howard recognises the hiding to nothing Simon Reid has, through no fault of his own, inherited and is just asking that we remember that.

No more no less.
These users thanked the author Mid A 15 for the post (total 8):
Jim Rayner (Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:33 am) • Katharine (Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:40 am) • Great Plum (Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:13 pm) • Jennie (Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:44 pm) • Scazza (Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:24 pm) • jhopgood (Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:54 pm) • Wuppertal (Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:35 pm) • Ever Bluer (Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:05 pm)
Rating: 47.06%
Ma A, Mid A 65 -72

richardb
Forum Moderator
Posts: 838
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:23 pm
Real Name: Richard Bloomfield
Location: Tyne and Wear
Has thanked: 518 times
Been thanked: 426 times

Re: Roger Martin

Post by richardb » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:00 am

The acid test will not be whether Reid puts out a few press releases but whether the abused (and there are many more of them than the 20+ who formed the witnesses for the various prosecutions so far) are properly compensated for the life changing events that they were subjected to.

Words are one thing, deeds is something else altogether.

I don't remember Howard expressing the hope that they are properly and fully compensated, but am sure he will have done so somewhere.

Incidentally, I don't believe that Reid's exhortations were written by him. They will have been very carefully scripted from above.
These users thanked the author richardb for the post:
TMF (Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:12 pm)
Rating: 5.88%

User avatar
J.R.
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15700
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:53 pm
Real Name: John Rutley
Location: Dorking, Surrey
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 185 times

Re: Roger Martin

Post by J.R. » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:11 am

CodFlabAndMuck wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:39 am
richardb wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:09 pm
LHA wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:08 pm
anyone seen any press coverage?
Not a word.
Maybe there has been an adjournment and reporting restrictions until a trial date can be set?
I blame alien abduction.

Alien being the key word !
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

User avatar
jtaylor
Forum Administrator
Posts: 1838
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:32 am
Real Name: Julian Taylor
Location: Wantage, OXON
Has thanked: 60 times
Been thanked: 332 times
Contact:

Re: Roger Martin

Post by jtaylor » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:11 am

Howard, would value your recent experience over what CH would do today if they found out a member of staff had had abuse reported to them, but then failed to report it to the authorities?
I’d then ask the same question I asked on another thread:
jtaylor wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:39 pm
Absolutely. Would they dismiss a member of staff today for failing to report abuse, and publicise why they’d been fired? If so, they should be happy to condemn what’s gone before. If not, there’s still a problem today?
I’m yet to see any statement which condemns any blind-eye-turning and any lack of reporting which may have gone on from other staff, SMT etc... The trials revealed that a girl was encouraged not to go to the authorities - I’m hoping that would never happen again today, and thus that behaviour would be easy to condemn today?
These users thanked the author jtaylor for the post (total 7):
richardb (Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:13 am) • Jim Rayner (Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:17 am) • Katharine (Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:40 am) • Mid A 15 (Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:33 pm) • Scazza (Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:26 pm) • bakunin (Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:57 pm) • Wuppertal (Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:37 pm)
Rating: 41.18%
Julian Taylor-Gadd
Leigh Hunt 1985-1992
Image
Founder of The Unofficial CH Forum
http://www.grovegeeks.co.uk - IT Support and website design for home, small businesses and charities.

User avatar
marty
Grecian
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:29 pm
Real Name: Marty E
Location: Buckinghamshire
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 106 times

Re: Roger Martin

Post by marty » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:12 am

richardb wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:00 am
Incidentally, I don't believe that Reid's exhortations were written by him. They will have been very carefully scripted from above.
And (without wanting to denigrate your profession Richard) almost certainly with input from a lawyer..
My therapist says I have a preoccupation with vengeance. We’ll see about that.

richardb
Forum Moderator
Posts: 838
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:23 pm
Real Name: Richard Bloomfield
Location: Tyne and Wear
Has thanked: 518 times
Been thanked: 426 times

Re: Roger Martin

Post by richardb » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:15 am

marty wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:12 am
richardb wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:00 am
Incidentally, I don't believe that Reid's exhortations were written by him. They will have been very carefully scripted from above.
And (without wanting to denigrate your profession Richard) almost certainly with input from a lawyer..
Quite right Marty. I would be astonished if there was no legal input which is why the commitments made by Reid do not include properly compensating victims.

richardb
Forum Moderator
Posts: 838
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:23 pm
Real Name: Richard Bloomfield
Location: Tyne and Wear
Has thanked: 518 times
Been thanked: 426 times

Re: Roger Martin

Post by richardb » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:18 am

Mid A 15 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:40 am
LHA wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:27 am
harryh wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:51 pm


Embarrassing and cheap.
I wonder what the purpose of you being on this forum is Howard? You seem more concerned to defend every tiny act of Simon Reid (and yes, I'm right to criticise, if all the school can be bother to do after each court case is a cut and paste then at least that should have happened with Martin's latest appearance) than to consider how the decades of abuse were allowed to continue unchecked.

I'm afraid my recollection of you being a decent man must have been mistaken. You disgust me.
Charles I normally like your posts but you're way out of line attacking Howard as you have even though he is big enough and ugly enough to defend himself.

Howard had Burr as a junior housemaster, was possibly taught by Webb, played cricket with Karim and worked with Husband and Dobbie. Roger Martin was also a master when Howard was a pupil.

His opinion is therefore as valid and informed, if not more so, than any other 'non victim' and adds to the forum.

I was in the same house as Howard for two years so knew him well and I can guarantee he is as repulsed and disgusted as any of us by these awful events and will want the School to accept accountability and responsibility where applicable once the dust settles.

However, being the decent man he is, Howard recognises the hiding to nothing Simon Reid has, through no fault of his own, inherited and is just asking that we remember that.

No more no less.
I think one has to remember that Howard was on the watch when Karim, Husband and Dobbie were rampaging through the pupils.

If it were me, I would be wracked with guilt about whether I missed a sign or two, or could have done more to prevent it. I am sure Howard feels like that too.

I think I would probably agree with the school's approach in those circumstances.

Jim Rayner
LE (Little Erasmus)
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:49 pm
Real Name: Jim Rayner
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Re: Roger Martin

Post by Jim Rayner » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:33 am

richardb wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:18 am

I think one has to remember that Howard was on the watch when Karim, Husband and Dobbie were rampaging through the pupils.

If it were me, I would be wracked with guilt about whether I missed a sign or two, or could have done more to prevent it. I am sure Howard feels like that too.

I think I would probably agree with the school's approach in those circumstances.
I think you're being a bit pompous there, Richard.

So far as I can see Howard is one of the good guys and I'd value knowing what he thinks about the history and the way things have now changed.

Like you I'm exasperated by Simon Reid's various statements to Old Blues because they focus on the changes that have been made to protect current and future pupils but ignore the obvious fact that OB's will be concerned about why things were allowed to go wrong in the past and what the school is doing to support victims.

I dare say Reid is doing the best he can in managing the school that he's inherited. The issue I have is that the concerns of many OB's are being politely ignored because reputation management is seen as more important. No doubt that's driven by policy decisions of the Council, and possibly lawyers and insurers (and God help us, brand management specialists); personally I think it's misguided.
These users thanked the author Jim Rayner for the post (total 5):
richardb (Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:35 am) • jtaylor (Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:44 am) • Katharine (Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:55 am) • Mid A 15 (Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:34 pm) • Scazza (Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:02 pm)
Rating: 29.41%
LHA 67-70; ThA 70-74

richardb
Forum Moderator
Posts: 838
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:23 pm
Real Name: Richard Bloomfield
Location: Tyne and Wear
Has thanked: 518 times
Been thanked: 426 times

Re: Roger Martin

Post by richardb » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:36 am

Jim Rayner wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:33 am
richardb wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:18 am

I think one has to remember that Howard was on the watch when Karim, Husband and Dobbie were rampaging through the pupils.

If it were me, I would be wracked with guilt about whether I missed a sign or two, or could have done more to prevent it. I am sure Howard feels like that too.

I think I would probably agree with the school's approach in those circumstances.
I think you're being a bit pompous there, Richard.

So far as I can see Howard is one of the good guys and I'd value knowing what he thinks about the history and the way things have now changed.

Like you I'm exasperated by Simon Reid's various statements to Old Blues because they focus on the changes that have been made to protect current and future pupils but ignore the obvious fact that OB's will be concerned about why things were allowed to go wrong in the past and what the school is doing to support victims.

I dare say Reid is doing the best he can in managing the school that he's inherited. The issue I have is that the concerns of many OB's are being politely ignored because reputation management is seen as more important. No doubt that's driven by policy decisions of the Council, and possibly lawyers and insurers (and God help us, brand management specialists); personally I think it's misguided.
Tongue in cheek Jim !!

User avatar
J.R.
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15700
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:53 pm
Real Name: John Rutley
Location: Dorking, Surrey
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 185 times

Re: Roger Martin

Post by J.R. » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:02 pm

Is there any possibility the accused failed to attend Crown Court yesterday ?
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

richardb
Forum Moderator
Posts: 838
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:23 pm
Real Name: Richard Bloomfield
Location: Tyne and Wear
Has thanked: 518 times
Been thanked: 426 times

Re: Roger Martin

Post by richardb » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:06 pm

I think we would have read about that JR.

harryh
UF (Upper Fourth)
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:27 pm
Real Name: Howard Holdsworth
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Roger Martin

Post by harryh » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:07 pm

jtaylor wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:11 am
Howard, would value your recent experience over what CH would do today if they found out a member of staff had had abuse reported to them, but then failed to report it to the authorities?
I’d then ask the same question I asked on another thread:
jtaylor wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:39 pm
Absolutely. Would they dismiss a member of staff today for failing to report abuse, and publicise why they’d been fired? If so, they should be happy to condemn what’s gone before. If not, there’s still a problem today?
I’m yet to see any statement which condemns any blind-eye-turning and any lack of reporting which may have gone on from other staff, SMT etc... The trials revealed that a girl was encouraged not to the authorities - I’m hoping that would never happen again today, and thus that behaviour would be easy to condemn today?
Hi Julian. To my knowledge someone who does not "blow the whistle" is not committing a criminal offence even in 2018, though I think we would all feel such inaction to be morally reprehensible.

During INSET sessions on Child Protection and Safeguarding it is made clear to all staff - i.e. All Employees - that "whistleblowing" is essential. I cannot suggest that a termination of contract would be the consequence of inaction, but I suspect this might come in as standard practice following the inevitable and much desired investigation.
These users thanked the author harryh for the post (total 3):
Great Plum (Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:24 pm) • Mid A 15 (Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:34 pm) • jtaylor (Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:35 pm)
Rating: 17.65%

richardb
Forum Moderator
Posts: 838
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:23 pm
Real Name: Richard Bloomfield
Location: Tyne and Wear
Has thanked: 518 times
Been thanked: 426 times

Re: Roger Martin

Post by richardb » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:19 pm

The simple answer is to impose a positive duty on any member of staff to report any incidence of child abuse to the Child Protection Officer.

Employment law protects a whistle blower but a failure to report then renders the person failing at risk of disciplinary action.

Reporting child abuse should now be mandatory but - as Howard observes - it is still not a criminal offence for anyone to fail to do so.

harryh
UF (Upper Fourth)
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:27 pm
Real Name: Howard Holdsworth
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Roger Martin

Post by harryh » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:25 pm

richardb wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:18 am
Mid A 15 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:40 am
LHA wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:27 am


I wonder what the purpose of you being on this forum is Howard? You seem more concerned to defend every tiny act of Simon Reid (and yes, I'm right to criticise, if all the school can be bother to do after each court case is a cut and paste then at least that should have happened with Martin's latest appearance) than to consider how the decades of abuse were allowed to continue unchecked.

I'm afraid my recollection of you being a decent man must have been mistaken. You disgust me.
Charles I normally like your posts but you're way out of line attacking Howard as you have even though he is big enough and ugly enough to defend himself.

Howard had Burr as a junior housemaster, was possibly taught by Webb, played cricket with Karim and worked with Husband and Dobbie. Roger Martin was also a master when Howard was a pupil.

His opinion is therefore as valid and informed, if not more so, than any other 'non victim' and adds to the forum.

I was in the same house as Howard for two years so knew him well and I can guarantee he is as repulsed and disgusted as any of us by these awful events and will want the School to accept accountability and responsibility where applicable once the dust settles.

However, being the decent man he is, Howard recognises the hiding to nothing Simon Reid has, through no fault of his own, inherited and is just asking that we remember that.

No more no less.
I think one has to remember that Howard was on the watch when Karim, Husband and Dobbie were rampaging through the pupils.

If it were me, I would be wracked with guilt about whether I missed a sign or two, or could have done more to prevent it. I am sure Howard feels like that too.

I think I would probably agree with the school's approach in those circumstances.
"If it were me" . A key phrase. Of course I wracked my brains.
" I am sure Howard feels like that too" . You do seem to presume too much on occasions, Richard.

In response to other views I would say this : I think a forum such as this should provide a chance for a range of people to express their opinions. I am now worried that the forum is being hijacked by a few who believe that in order for you to remain in the club you should sing from their songsheet

I have openly stated that I am disgusted by the perpetrators of such crimes.
The school will judge very shortly how they can help the victims and not merely in terms of financial compensation.

Without appearing flippant... To other news.. 130 CH students received their A Level results today.
These users thanked the author harryh for the post:
Wuppertal (Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:40 pm)
Rating: 5.88%

Post Reply