Did anyone know?

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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by Pe.A » Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:47 pm

AMP wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:28 pm
Whilst it would be nice to give people the benefit of the doubt, he came on this forum out of the blue and made a full confession to a criminal offence for which he could be imprisoned today if he were prosecuted and found guilty.

There is no record of why he left.

We are being asked to rely solely on his account.

Why would anyone knowingly come on a hostile public forum and confess to a criminal offence?

Unless of course it never happened
As i recall, he came out in the open when he noticed his name mentioned in the same topic about unexplained staff disappearances...

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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by graham » Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:21 pm

Pe.A wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:45 pm
Given by what sounds like a successful career post CH for Mr Durrant teaching and stewarding children, would you say that your own career as a barrister has left you less accommodating of the idea of rehabilitation rather than punishment...?
If, by a successful post-CH career, you are referring to getting drunk with U-18 students and giving them "friendly massages" (his own words, not mine), then yeah, I think most of us are on Richard's side with this one.

Can I respond here also to loringa's post that rekindled this debate? I don't think its fair or wise to bring out the "many of us had a great time and didn't know what was going on" argument. It's perfectly possible for 99% of Old Blues to look back on their own experiences positively and recognize the positive impacts that the place had on them, while simultaneously recognizing that there was also a chronic and catastrophic failure to protect a subset of students from sexual predators and physically abusers. It is not the job of those that suffered to reconcile this - it is the burden for those that didn't.
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by Ajarn Philip » Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:57 pm

richardb wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:09 pm
With 35+ years of listening to criminals (and it was a criminal act) minimising their actions, I rarely believe a word they say.
I'm guessing your talents led you in the direction of the prosecution rather than the defence. For the sake of defendants, I certainly hope so.
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by Pe.A » Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:27 pm

Ajarn Philip wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:57 pm
richardb wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:09 pm
With 35+ years of listening to criminals (and it was a criminal act) minimising their actions, I rarely believe a word they say.
I'm guessing your talents led you in the direction of the prosecution rather than the defence. For the sake of defendants, I certainly hope so.
:lol:

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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by Pe.A » Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:33 pm

graham wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:21 pm
Pe.A wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:45 pm
Given by what sounds like a successful career post CH for Mr Durrant teaching and stewarding children, would you say that your own career as a barrister has left you less accommodating of the idea of rehabilitation rather than punishment...?
If, by a successful post-CH career, you are referring to getting drunk with U-18 students and giving them "friendly massages" (his own words, not mine), then yeah, I think most of us are on Richard's side with this one.

Can I respond here also to loringa's post that rekindled this debate? I don't think its fair or wise to bring out the "many of us had a great time and didn't know what was going on" argument. It's perfectly possible for 99% of Old Blues to look back on their own experiences positively and recognize the positive impacts that the place had on them, while simultaneously recognizing that there was also a chronic and catastrophic failure to protect a subset of students from sexual predators and physically abusers. It is not the job of those that suffered to reconcile this - it is the burden for those that didn't.
Graham - i was merely highlighting the problem of taking a (severe) clip round the earhole in isolation of the prevailing culture of corporal punishment at the time. You seem to be referring to a case that was brought against Durrant and of which he was subsequently cleared by a jury, which seems irrelevant to bring up (?)

And i think you are simplifying what loringa was saying in his posts regarding what/if people knew at the time...

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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by TMF » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:06 pm

Apologists have a tendency to make personal comments about their fellow posters...

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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by richardb » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:24 am

Ajarn Philip wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:57 pm
richardb wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:09 pm
With 35+ years of listening to criminals (and it was a criminal act) minimising their actions, I rarely believe a word they say.
I'm guessing your talents led you in the direction of the prosecution rather than the defence. For the sake of defendants, I certainly hope so.
No. I defend.

It isn't my job to believe them and if I did I wouldn't sleep at night.

Try listening to a few criminals who show no remorse and invariably minimalise their criminality.

People like the sex offender who tell you the 12 year old looked at him provocatively.

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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by richardb » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:28 am

Pe.A wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:45 pm
richardb wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:09 pm
You cannot assault pupils. Whatever the circumstances.

We have a very self serving account from Durrant. On that account alone, he should never have been allowed to teach again.

With 35+ years of listening to criminals (and it was a criminal act) minimising their actions, I rarely believe a word they say. And I am not minded to take a different course with Durrant.

Any teacher assaulting a pupil is a complete and utter disgrace and renders that person totally unfit for teaching.

You are quite entitled to disagree Andrew but in the more enlightened times that we now live in he would be drummed out of the profession. He should have been then.
Given the context of the time with regards to corporal punishment, i'm inclined to agree with loringa. It's tricky to work out quite what's twisting your melon, exactly, Richard - the clip round the earhole or the perforated eardrum - which, to be fair, implies it was either an almighty wallop or an unfortunately placed one.

Both you and loringa are longer in the tooth than me, and even though i reckon i was one of the last primary school children in the UK to get the cane in the late 80s, i appreciate that your knowledge of the regime in CH around corporal punishment will be greater than mine.

However, when this furore first kicked off i immediately thought of the line in the Madness song, Baggy Trousers ("...teacher comes to break it up, back of the head with a plastic cup...") which does sort of imply a clip round the earhole wasn't out of the ordinary - or at least by not that much.

Given by what sounds like a successful career post CH for Mr Durrant teaching and stewarding children, would you say that your own career as a barrister has left you less accommodating of the idea of rehabilitation rather than punishment...?
Rehabilitation involves education and the system provides little in the way of education.

Prisoners are locked up and left to take spice and watch television.

It is saddening to see how many repeat offenders there are.

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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by graham » Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:03 am

Pe.A wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:33 pm

You seem to be referring to a case that was brought against Durrant and of which he was subsequently cleared by a jury, which seems irrelevant to bring up (?)
Well, no, I deliberately didn't mention the case because of the fact that he was acquitted. I referred to comments that he made himself during that case about he was drinking with underage boys and how he gave them "friendly massages". The reason for bringing this up is that it was claimed that, aside from an old incident at CH, he had an otherwise uneventful and successful career. If this includes drinking with underage children in his care to the point of getting drunk (illegal) and massaging them without medical reasons for doing so (inappropriate) then perhaps that successful career should be viewed in a different light.

Villified might feel vilified because of the case brought against him, but a little reflection on his actions suggests that he acted inappropriately towards students on at least two occasions that were separated by decades and that occurred at different schools. Had appropriate action been taken after the "clip round the ear", perhaps things might have panned out a little differently,
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by Pe.A » Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:58 pm

TMF wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:06 pm
Apologists have a tendency to make personal comments about their fellow posters...
Personal comments...?

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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by Pe.A » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:03 pm

richardb wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:28 am
Pe.A wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:45 pm
richardb wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:09 pm
You cannot assault pupils. Whatever the circumstances.

We have a very self serving account from Durrant. On that account alone, he should never have been allowed to teach again.

With 35+ years of listening to criminals (and it was a criminal act) minimising their actions, I rarely believe a word they say. And I am not minded to take a different course with Durrant.

Any teacher assaulting a pupil is a complete and utter disgrace and renders that person totally unfit for teaching.

You are quite entitled to disagree Andrew but in the more enlightened times that we now live in he would be drummed out of the profession. He should have been then.
Given the context of the time with regards to corporal punishment, i'm inclined to agree with loringa. It's tricky to work out quite what's twisting your melon, exactly, Richard - the clip round the earhole or the perforated eardrum - which, to be fair, implies it was either an almighty wallop or an unfortunately placed one.

Both you and loringa are longer in the tooth than me, and even though i reckon i was one of the last primary school children in the UK to get the cane in the late 80s, i appreciate that your knowledge of the regime in CH around corporal punishment will be greater than mine.

However, when this furore first kicked off i immediately thought of the line in the Madness song, Baggy Trousers ("...teacher comes to break it up, back of the head with a plastic cup...") which does sort of imply a clip round the earhole wasn't out of the ordinary - or at least by not that much.

Given by what sounds like a successful career post CH for Mr Durrant teaching and stewarding children, would you say that your own career as a barrister has left you less accommodating of the idea of rehabilitation rather than punishment...?
Rehabilitation involves education and the system provides little in the way of education.

Prisoners are locked up and left to take spice and watch television.

It is saddening to see how many repeat offenders there are.
Successful rehabilitation requires more than just education, Richard - inspiration and opportunities being good examples.
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by Pe.A » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:51 pm

graham wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:03 am
Pe.A wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:33 pm

You seem to be referring to a case that was brought against Durrant and of which he was subsequently cleared by a jury, which seems irrelevant to bring up (?)
Well, no, I deliberately didn't mention the case because of the fact that he was acquitted. I referred to comments that he made himself during that case about he was drinking with underage boys and how he gave them "friendly massages". The reason for bringing this up is that it was claimed that, aside from an old incident at CH, he had an otherwise uneventful and successful career. If this includes drinking with underage children in his care to the point of getting drunk (illegal) and massaging them without medical reasons for doing so (inappropriate) then perhaps that successful career should be viewed in a different light.

Villified might feel vilified because of the case brought against him, but a little reflection on his actions suggests that he acted inappropriately towards students on at least two occasions that were separated by decades and that occurred at different schools. Had appropriate action been taken after the "clip round the ear", perhaps things might have panned out a little differently,
Hmmm....while the devil can be in the detail for a lot of things, context and perspective are crucial. You're comparing two different sets of actions across a 30-odd year period which i don't think is right. Judging by the newspaper reports, the drinking was part of a school Christmas party. I'm not intrinsically opposed to the 16-18 age range being given alcohol. During my senior years at CH i got a bit drunk in more than one teacher's house, and from what i can remember, the Founder's Day Dinner on my Grecians, to which my year was invited, was complete carnage. As for the 'friendly massages', my manager at work used to give me them (usually if he could tell i'd had a drink the night before). If he had given me a foot massage i might have raised an eyebrow, and with anything above the ankle, i would have assumed he was taking the p*ss.

Levity aside, and coming back to the clip round the earhole incident, i just don't agree with the idea that Durrant deserved to lose his career over it, especially given the prevailing culture of corporal punishment. Good teachers are a valuable enough commodity.
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by TMF » Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:48 pm

During my senior years at CH i got a bit drunk in more than one teacher's house
Which teachers?

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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by Pe.A » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:11 pm

TMF wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:48 pm
During my senior years at CH i got a bit drunk in more than one teacher's house
Which teachers?
Like i would say! No one in the least bit dodgy. It was a bit of alcohol with food and with another responsible adult present. Mostly on my Grecians year...

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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by graham » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:39 pm

Pe.A wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:51 pm
graham wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:03 am
Pe.A wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:33 pm

You seem to be referring to a case that was brought against Durrant and of which he was subsequently cleared by a jury, which seems irrelevant to bring up (?)
Well, no, I deliberately didn't mention the case because of the fact that he was acquitted. I referred to comments that he made himself during that case about he was drinking with underage boys and how he gave them "friendly massages". The reason for bringing this up is that it was claimed that, aside from an old incident at CH, he had an otherwise uneventful and successful career. If this includes drinking with underage children in his care to the point of getting drunk (illegal) and massaging them without medical reasons for doing so (inappropriate) then perhaps that successful career should be viewed in a different light.

Villified might feel vilified because of the case brought against him, but a little reflection on his actions suggests that he acted inappropriately towards students on at least two occasions that were separated by decades and that occurred at different schools. Had appropriate action been taken after the "clip round the ear", perhaps things might have panned out a little differently,
Hmmm....while the devil can be in the detail for a lot of things, context and perspective are crucial. You're comparing two different sets of actions across a 30-odd year period which i don't think is right. Judging by the newspaper reports, the drinking was part of a school Christmas party. I'm not intrinsically opposed to the 16-18 age range being given alcohol. During my senior years at CH i got a bit drunk in more than one teacher's house, and from what i can remember, the Founder's Day Dinner on my Grecians, to which my year was invited, was complete carnage. As for the 'friendly massages', my manager at work used to give me them (usually if he could tell i'd had a drink the night before). If he had given me a foot massage i might have raised an eyebrow, and with anything above the ankle, i would have assumed he was taking the p*ss.

Levity aside, and coming back to the clip round the earhole incident, i just don't agree with the idea that Durrant deserved to lose his career over it, especially given the prevailing culture of corporal punishment. Good teachers are a valuable enough commodity.
I can see where you are coming from on this but a couple of things I would counter.

1. There’s a difference between you being ok with your boss at work giving you a shoulder rub and a teacher doing these things with pupils. Actually, theres not much difference - bosses shouldn’t be doing that either but you being ok with it is different to a U18 pupil. I don’t think it’s appropriate to characterize what an adult might be on with as making what a teacher does to a pupil ok.

2. The two incidents are very different in nature and time of occurrence but paint a picture of an individual whose boundaries with pupils were blurred. I find that concerning.
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