HUSBAND APPEAL ??

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HUSBAND APPEAL ??

Post by J.R. » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:51 pm

James Andrew Husband is applying for permission (leave) to appeal against his sentence on 27th November at the Royal Courts of Justice, Strand, London.

For those who are not familiar with criminal appeals, the process is as follows:

1. an offender can appeal against conviction or sentence, but only with leave.

2. appeal against conviction lies only on the grounds that the conviction was unsafe, which usually involves some wrong decision by the trial judge as to the admissibility of evidence, or a failure to discharge the jury when some irregularity occurs, or some defect in the judge's summing up to the judge. The modern trend is to provide the judge's summing up to the advocates in writing for them do correct, thus preventing the judge getting it wrong;

3. Appeal against sentence lies only on the grounds either that the sentence is wrong in principle (imprisonment for rape is not wrong in principle) or manifestly excessive (i.e much too high);

4. In order to appeal, permission/leave is required. It will only be granted if the appeal is arguable;

5. All appeals are usually put before a judge (known as the single judge) on paper to decide if leave should be granted. Sometimes this may not happen if, for example, the sentence is short and it is important to proceed urgently;

6. If leave is refused by the single judge, the offender can renew his application for leave before the full court of two or three judges. By this stage it will already have been refused once by an experienced judge;

7. Very often the court will grant leave to appeal and then use the same hearing to decide the appeal;

8. In appeals against sentence, the prosecution will rarely be present. The judges will have the case papers (usually summaries will have been prepared for them) and will have transcripts of sentencing remarks etc.;

9. Historically appeals have been heard at the Royal Courts of Justice, although this has begun to change and a small number of hearings are now taking place outside London;

10. In the modern day, the offender often “appears” at the hearing by video link.



It appears that Husband has either not challenged his convictions or, if he has, leave to appeal has been refused. He is still appealing against his sentence, although it looks as though he has already been refused leave on the papers, so he has an uphill task.

On an appeal by the offender, the court cannot increase the sentence. It can only dismiss the appeal or reduce the sentence. But the court can make a "loss of time direction" where they direct that a period of time which has been served does not count towards sentence. The current "vogue" is 28 days. It is a form of penalty for hopeless appeals.

There is still no news as to when Gary Dobbie will be sentenced or whether there will be any further charges against him.

I can't go any further at this stage as this information has only recently been passed to me by a third party.
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Re: HUSBAND APPEAL ??

Post by CodFlabAndMuck » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:00 pm

Do we know if the family member who tried to get the complainant to drop the case is going to be prosecuted for witness intimidation and obstruction of justice?

Very serious offences.

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Re: HUSBAND APPEAL ??

Post by J.R. » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:09 pm

I know no more at this stage.
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Re: HUSBAND APPEAL ??

Post by sejintenej » Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:35 pm

The process seems pretty comprehensive but perhaps far too much so.

For example, having leave to appeal turned down by an experienced judge then the possibility of wasting thfree other judges's time seems stupid - it suggests that the initial judge is incompetent but he would never have been a judge if he had not been singled out for his ability. Making an appeal a two stage affair seems wasteful; a) the appelent has or has not committed the offence OR b) the sentence is inappropriate.

The possibility of a poor judge's summing up seems to be negated by the practice of both sides being able to comment on it in advance. I hope that judges do take note of any adverse comments at that stage. Thus the FACTS will surely have been established save where there is proof of perjury or failure to produce relevent evidence or later discovered evidence.
In considering this last case then we are looking at what is effectively a whole new trial so it should be treated as such, perhaps being abbreviated by having testimony from the initial trial being read into the new trial.

Surely appeals should be heard anywhere, and not necessarily at the Royal Courts of Justice provided a suitable judge is available. In any case appeals could be heard in chambers with a video link to the prisoner because there are probably no witnesses. All this is to reduce the pressure on judges and on the number of courtrooms available. It also opens the field to 24 hour per day justice.

References to the masculine above should, of course, be read as including the female, hermaphrodites and those in between
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Re: HUSBAND APPEAL ??

Post by Golfer » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:45 pm

CodFlabAndMuck wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:00 pm
Do we know if the family member who tried to get the complainant to drop the case is going to be prosecuted for witness intimidation and obstruction of justice? Very serious offences.
It would surely depend on the extent of the "intimidation". Probably raising the issue on an internet forum is not exactly "witness intimidation" ?

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Re: HUSBAND APPEAL ??

Post by robert totterdell » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:43 pm

JR has provided a very comprehensive response to how the Appeal System works.

Whilst it may seem a waste of public money to allow Husband's appeal we must all remember that GB has by far the best judicial system in the world and all accused, found guilty and sentenced, do have a right of appeal - even for treason. This is based on the Anglo Saxon system and before the rubbish Norman system which included the various witch hunts which they so much enjoyed (whether witchcraft or simple crimes).

I don't like Husband and I knew him; I don't like or respect the others but I must accept their rights which is something they did not do to their victims.

Whatever the outcome on 27th Husband will still serve time but it will always be much lower than his victim(s) - this is true of Burr, Webb, Karim and Dobbie.

Let the law do its work. I for one will attend the hearing and whilst I would happily take a revolver and shoot him in the dock - that's if he bothers to attend (he doesn't have to) - I will accept the law as it stands. Mind you if the appeal is successful it can be overturned.

Thank you JR for your legal summary - at least someone other than me is paying attention!
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Re: HUSBAND APPEAL ??

Post by robert totterdell » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:48 pm

Golpher

The one (and more) family members of Husband may well attend - be assured that the victim(s) will be represented and those that do this will be much more than a match for his family.

Hope that this helps.
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Re: HUSBAND APPEAL ??

Post by DazedandConfused » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:45 pm

Robert- you and all the others who endured so much are never far from my thoughts.

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Re: HUSBAND APPEAL ??

Post by michael scuffil » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:19 pm

we must all remember that GB has by far the best judicial system in the world

Like it has the best health service, the best roads, the best rail network etc etc. etc.

England (there is no GB judicial system) has a good judicial system which is certainly comparable with that of other developed countries. Like all of them, it has its faults. In some areas it may be better than most, in some it is certainly worse. Let's not bang nationalist drums.
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Re: HUSBAND APPEAL ??

Post by bakunin » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:31 pm

Everyone here (America) is obsessed with how 'our' legal system is the best... despite some pretty glaring signs it isn't, like multiple death row DNA exonerations, the OJ Simpson trial, and huge differences in incarceration times and rates by race. I think many countries' citizens think theirs is the best, as long as they have had a relatively calm and prosperous time recently. The internet says Denmark's is the best.

The libel laws in the UK certainly aren't 'the best'. America has a few advantages in terms of protected speech and some more clearly defined civil liberties... not that those won't be totally brushed aside when expedient.

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Re: HUSBAND APPEAL ??

Post by michael scuffil » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:20 am

In case you want to know why I think the English legal system is not 'the best':

1. it sends far too many people to prison
2. the accusatorial system does not allow the courts to conduct their own inquiries (defence and prosecution can agree -- tacitly or explicitly -- to omit matters of public interest)
3. it has no time limits on prosecutions
4. it allows children to be formally prosecuted
5. it allows accused persons (or even mere suspects) to be named publicly before they are convicted
6. it does not allow victims of crimes against the person (or their families, in homicide cases) to be formally represented in criminal proceedings
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Re: HUSBAND APPEAL ??

Post by robert totterdell » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:24 pm

I said it is the best legal system and I will stick by that and whilst Scotland and Northern Ireland has separate legal systems they are close to or replicate that of England, Wales, The Channel Islands and the Isle of Man as well as Gibralter and other 'Protectorates'. It is by no means a perfect system but it far better than any in Europe or the USA system and has been adopted by numerous Commonwealth Countries including Mozambique which originally had the USSR system.

My point was that Husband has a right of appeal - regardless of what he did. That right is sacrosanct to our judicial system. He can win or lose - the Appeal Court Judges will decide and I would suggest that they are better placed to make that decision than me or any other nonjudicial Old Blue.

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Re: HUSBAND APPEAL ??

Post by sejintenej » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:45 am

michael scuffil wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:20 am
In case you want to know why I think the English legal system is not 'the best':

1. it sends far too many people to prison
2. the accusatorial system does not allow the courts to conduct their own inquiries (defence and prosecution can agree -- tacitly or explicitly -- to omit matters of public interest)
3. it has no time limits on prosecutions
4. it allows children to be formally prosecuted
5. it allows accused persons (or even mere suspects) to be named publicly before they are convicted
6. it does not allow victims of crimes against the person (or their families, in homicide cases) to be formally represented in criminal proceedings
I agree with you on no 2.
1. As for sending too many to prison perhaps it is the wrong people who get sent down - I cite drug addicts and mental cases as examples. OTOH far too many criminals are not sent to prison when the general ppopulation needs to be protected from them
3 If you commit a crime then you should be tried for that even if the evidence takes years to compile. Otherwise should the period be 1589 days and you get off scot free after 1590 days? All you have to do is live abroad outside UK influence for the required period.That is IMHO stupid!
5. Naming the accused allows for further evidence to surface as in the current CH master cases.
6. Victims are naturally biased and the whole basis of the justice system is to screen out any form of bias. Victims are allowed to influence the punishment after a guilty verdict by stating how they have been affected by the crims.

As for the German system I have seen cases where national socialists in the 1990s were allowed to get away with openly anti-Jew actions almost scot free - in one case in Frankfurt it went to three different courts before a "satisfactory" verdict was reached
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Re: HUSBAND APPEAL ??

Post by J.R. » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:13 pm

The appeal is tomorrow.
Court 8 NOT Court 9.
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Re: HUSBAND APPEAL ??

Post by AMP » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:12 am

There are reporting restrictions under the sexual offences Act, which presumably applies to this forum as well

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