Roger Martin - trial

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LHA
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Re: Roger Martin - trial

Post by LHA »

Morgan wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:15 am
To read in black and white that Roger Martin has been convicted of this crime has really made me re-evaluate all my thoughts about CH and staff encounters there. I suggest every OB interested in this matter personally registers and logs into the Court record site www.thelawpages.com, to see with their own eyes the reality of the trial outcome.

I would have been 12 when this crime was committed. I too was encouraged to believe that Mr Martin was one of the so called “good guys”. Obviously that was not entirely true. The fact that he had a problem and was in close quarters with young boys for so many years suggests that he might have caused more damage both at CH and perhaps elsewhere (Kenya?).

Inevitably we as past pupils reassess our own experiences in the light of the information coming out with this succession of convictions: were other masters closet offenders? Did things that happened to us fit into this grooming, testing, probing environment, that apparently we were educated in. I remember one master (who had a nickname that in itself speaks volumes) pulled me naked out of my bath, and had me slung over his shoulder in a fireman’s lift position, cheek to cheek as it were. I was so affronted that I instinctively managed to grab a tube of tooth paste from the rack behind him and smeared his tweed jacket and balding pate with Colgate, by way of protest. There were no repercussions for this act of defiance, but perhaps it was enough resistance on my part to show him that I would not take his **** lying down, so perhaps that saved my **** from further attention. But perhaps that also meant some other poor soul became his target instead. He did give me the slipper on two other occasions, which in retrospect were equally disturbing, because both times I was instructed to go down alone to his study on some trumped up charge, and was then beaten in the privacy of his own room. How such a method of punishment is not fraught with opportunity for abuse is beyond me. That seemed to be him getting his jollies right there, plain and simple.

This long list of creeps who have so abused their positions will surely continue to grow. I hope every adult who experienced abuse at CH as a child will find the strength to come forward, and I offer my sympathies and thanks to those who have already done so.
Morgan, thank you for your post, and for sharing your recollection of a horrible and abusive act. Martin's conviction seemeds shocked many in a way the conviction of the other's hasn't. I wonder if that's because the methods to abuse were more 'collective' and harder for him to continue with in the 1980s and 1990s compared to the grooming approaches used by Dobbie / Husband and the like (and so later OBs have a stronger memory of a kindly older man). The horrors of anything he might have done in Kenya may never be known.

Might I suggest hat this information is shared with Sussex Police - they will be interested and they will be able to help (should you want it?. If you don't want to be involved in anything beyond that conversation, then they may still be real value in coming forward because there might be other information about this person which your account helps to corroborate.

I think everyone on the forum will share my view that Sussex Police have been beyond reproach and you can expect to be treated with completely dignity and respect in a phone call or a face to face discussion.
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Re: Roger Martin - trial

Post by Chrissie Boy »

Morgan wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:15 am
The fact that he had a problem and was in close quarters with young boys for so many years suggests that he might have caused more damage both at CH and perhaps elsewhere (Kenya?).
LHA wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:54 am
The horrors of anything he might have done in Kenya may never be known.

As for anything that may or may not have occurred during RM's days at Starehe, we'll almost certainly never know, because African men are probably the last men on Earth who'd put their hands up and say 'Yes, we were victims of homosexual paedophile abuse," because in the eyes of their peer group, they'd look as if they weren't proper heterosexual men, even though it wasn't their fault. They simply wouldn't want to make any sort of connection between themselves and anything even remotely homosexual, so their mouths would remain shut.

I'd be interested to know whether the complainant in the CH case was a black boy, though. Mind you, if that turned out to be the case, acknowledging it on this forum would pretty much destroy his anonymity and we can't have that.

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Re: Roger Martin - trial

Post by yamaha »

Do these dull-brained musings about Kenya serve any purpose?
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Re: Roger Martin - trial

Post by harryh »

TMF wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:43 am
Howard Holdsworth said: "There were others." [teachers who departed suddenly during Howard's tenure]
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=5209&&start=60#p142395

Howard also said: 'The authorities are fully aware.' (meaning the school)
viewtopic.php?f=65&t=5209&start=75#p142444
My viewpoint has not changed.

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Re: Roger Martin - trial

Post by Pe.A »

jakew wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:50 pm
My recollection is that RM was a well-regarded guy, but probably not a great educator as he always seemed to have the bottom sets.

He did have a few habits - the house swimming thing, the cine camera thing - that might have been regarded as merely eccentric by the standards of the day, or at least by CH's standards, but look rather different when viewed from 2019. Like many of the others mentioned in despatches, he was rather fond of the bottle, wasn't he? That said, I probably would be too if I were cooped up in the Sussex countryside with a bunch of maniac teenagers for company.
Would have thought that to teach pupils in lower sets you had to have a certain skill (and patience) for teaching...?

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Re: Roger Martin - trial

Post by Pe.A »

jtaylor wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:31 pm
The whole thing with skinny-dipping itself isn’t an issue in my opinion, UNLESS it’s something forced or imposed by someone for their own gratification.
Naturism and naturist swimming is acknowledged as good for wellbeing, pool hygiene etc - but isn’t something to be forced on boys for a teacher’s gratification. I get the impression there was a period when it was the norm - but from what I understand it was reintroduced by Martin with nefarious purposes....
It's a tricky one to judge though. Eye of the beholder stuff. Similar to during the 80s, forcing a child to do PE in their (vest and) pants if they forgot their PE kit. I'd be surprised if that still happened...

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Re: Roger Martin - trial

Post by ASR »

I had a minor role as a witness in the Roger Martin case — went into the dock, which was MY choice — and can also attest that the Sussex Police dealt with me admirably. I'm glad I got in touch to tell my story of being filmed naked by RM. Police dealings with me were very sensitive for which I am grateful.

My experience (apart from the above) of RM as house tutor in Barnes A 1966-68 before he left for Starehe, was of him being a caring, fun and funny.

It all leaves a strange mixed-up feeling.

Adrian
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Re: Roger Martin - trial

Post by max_ratcliffe »

Pe.A wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:21 pm
jakew wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:50 pm
My recollection is that RM was a well-regarded guy, but probably not a great educator as he always seemed to have the bottom sets.

<>for company.
Would have thought that to teach pupils in lower sets you had to have a certain skill (and patience) for teaching...?
I think it's probably harder to teach the lower sets. Granted you have a great excuse if results aren't great, but teaching the gifted can be just a matter of explaining the syllabus (once?) and moving on. I can think of plenty of donnish teachers who could teach set 1, but had no clue how to explain complex concepts. Bit off topic, so I shall shut up now.

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Re: Roger Martin - trial

Post by jakew »

Pe.A wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:21 pm
Would have thought that to teach pupils in lower sets you had to have a certain skill (and patience) for teaching...?
Ah, yes, of course, that'll be why they got THK to do it too!

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Re: Roger Martin - trial

Post by DazedandConfused »

ASR wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:37 pm
I had a minor role as a witness in the Roger Martin case — went into the dock, which was MY choice — and can also attest that the Sussex Police dealt with me admirably. I'm glad I got in touch to tell my story of being filmed naked by RM. Police dealings with me were very sensitive for which I am grateful.

My experience (apart from the above) of RM as house tutor in Barnes A 1966-68 before he left for Starehe, was of him being a caring, fun and funny.

It all leaves a strange mixed-up feeling.

Adrian
I’m glad the police handled things so well and I really admire you for coming forward and testifying in court.
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Re: Roger Martin - trial

Post by bakunin »

So Kenya is a second destination for European paedophiles after Thailand then, is it? It's now come up several times on this forum, and a quick search seems to confirm this with multiple headlines of serial paedos getting convicted. (e.g. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 92396.html )

I would really like to find out more about the school in Pattaya that Poulton worked at.
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Re: Roger Martin - trial

Post by DazedandConfused »

bakunin wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:30 pm
So Kenya is a second destination for European paedophiles after Thailand then, is it? It's now come up several times on this forum, and a quick search seems to confirm this with multiple headlines of serial paedos getting convicted. (e.g. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 92396.html )

I would really like to find out more about the school in Pattaya that Poulton worked at.
I have a vague memory of some sort of scandal, possibly related to financial irregularity, which means that Poulton came home sooner than expected to disassociate himself from the school and that CH didn’t send further gap year pupils after that first year. I heard that third or fourth hand more than 20 years ago though, so please don’t take it as fact.

Actually, I think a couple of the OBs on this forum were peers of those who spent their gap year at the school so may know more.
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Re: Roger Martin - trial

Post by J.R. »

bakunin wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:30 pm
So Kenya is a second destination for European paedophiles after Thailand then, is it? It's now come up several times on this forum, and a quick search seems to confirm this with multiple headlines of serial paedos getting convicted. (e.g. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 92396.html )

I would really like to find out more about the school in Pattaya that Poulton worked at.
So if any Forum members CAN add to this, please do so.

I'm sure we all would like to know.
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

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Re: Roger Martin - trial

Post by bakunin »

DazedandConfused wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:36 pm
Actually, I think a couple of the OBs on this forum were peers of those who spent their gap year at the school so may know more.
I believe several people in my year went, but the only one I knew well enough to ask died at a very young age.

About the only thing I've found online regarding CH and the International School of the Regents is this - http://www.bluessupportingblues.com/gap ... tance.html

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Re: Roger Martin - trial

Post by AMP »

LHA wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:32 pm
Chrissie Boy wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:23 pm
I'm finding this the most difficult conviction of all to deal with. Up until now, those found guilty have ranged from the not especially likeable to the downright creepy. But lots of former Barnes A boys will remember Roger Martin with very great fondness, both as a good housemaster (broadly speaking) and as a kindly man who bothered to listen to what his charges had to say and to try to understand them. Boys who were taught by him likewise remember him fondly as a very good teacher and as a fairminded authority figure who was respected by all in spite of being relatively easygoing. He was the sort of master with whom Old Blues kept in touch after leaving school.

But he did what he did.

Human beings never cease to confound me.
My memories of him broadly accord with yours. He had obvious health issues. I recall him teaching French, but I think he did a variety of other subjects? Was he into photography? I think had a disabled daughter.
His daughter died in 2012 from an incurable illness.

My thoughts are with his wife and children at this difficult time, as they are with the victim in this case.

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