Trial of Gary William Dobbie

This section was setup in August 2018 in order to move the existing related discussions from other sections into this new section to group them together, and separate from the other CH-related topics.

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Otter
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Re: Trial of Gary William Dobbie

Post by Otter »

DazedandConfused wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 2:14 pm “Dobbie and other single male house masters would organise parties where champagne was served and the best-looking boys were picked to be waiters”

First time I’ve heard reference to other house masters being involved in parties.
I had the same thought as you.

Who knows what’s yet to come in terms of investigations. A shame, but probably a good reason why the teacher witness was not named.

My thoughts are with all the victims at this confusing and distressing time. There are never any winners at the end of a criminal trial, regardless of verdict.
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Re: Trial of Gary William Dobbie

Post by DazedandConfused »

Otter wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 2:17 pm
My thoughts are with all the victims at this confusing and distressing time. There are never any winners at the end of a criminal trial, regardless of verdict.
Absolutely. I hope the verdict does provide some degree of comfort for the victims, but I appreciate it’s no magic wand.
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Re: Trial of Gary William Dobbie

Post by jtaylor »

For future reference, article and letter are here, hosted on the CH Forum site:
Argus article May 2019
HM & Treasurer CH Letter May 2019
Argus Article wrote:Dobbie and other single male house masters would organise parties where champagne was served and the best-looking boys were picked to be waiters, he said. They were allowed to drink and smoke – even though this was banned for pupils on school premises – but had to serve the teachers while wearing cycling shorts.
I remember these invitations, and the cycling-shorts bit...and having gone to Dobbie once for help, so much of the evidence was chillingly familiar to me....

Massive respect and credit to whoever the victim was in coming forward and pushing this to conclusion - would like to shake him by the hand, and ensure he knows we're all behind him and there for him as Old Blues. This should never have been allowed to happen - and I hope any staff who knew what was going on are brought to some sort of justice too, as well as the perpetrators. Truly a dark period for CH...
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DazedandConfused
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Re: Trial of Gary William Dobbie

Post by DazedandConfused »

Was the invitation that blatant that it mentioned the dress code? I don’t know why this is so appalling in the greater scheme of all that has happened, but the image of boys serving champagne whilst wearing cycling shorts is really upsetting.
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Re: Trial of Gary William Dobbie

Post by DazedandConfused »

jtaylor wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 2:43 pm
Massive respect and credit to whoever the victim was in coming forward and pushing this to conclusion - would like to shake him by the hand, and ensure he knows we're all behind him and there for him as Old Blues. This should never have been allowed to happen - and I hope any staff who knew what was going on are brought to some sort of justice too, as well as the perpetrators. Truly a dark period for CH...
Absolutely this (apologies Julian, I think you edited your post whilst I was busy quoting the first part and missed your final statement)
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Re: Trial of Gary William Dobbie

Post by Mid A 15 »

Mid A 15 wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:12 am
marty wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:50 am Day 2 report from The Mirror. Unpleasant reading. I understand from Leeautemps that the Court is not sitting today.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/p ... l-14574436
Unpleasant reading indeed. Much as we may want to, we must remember to resist the temptation to comment further at this juncture.
I really had to restrain myself from commenting when I read Marty's link to The Mirror report the other day. Hence my cautionary comment at the time.

That poor child having to suffer a situation whereby being sexually molested by an evil, predatory Chaplain, shamelessly abusing his position of trust to exploit vulnerable pupils for his own perverted ends, was actually considered preferable to being bullied by his peers!

Shame on all those responsible who did not help and rescue that poor child at the time.

Julian, if this is in anyway compromising to justice then please remove it with my blessing but what I have referred to is, and was before the verdict, in the public domain.
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Re: Trial of Gary William Dobbie

Post by richardb »

Personally I am absolutely delighted that the former pupil who carried the dreadful memories of being abused by a predatory paedophile for so long has been vindicated by a jury who returned the appropriate
He deserves all our commendations for having the courage to come forward at a time when it might have been easier to remain below the parapet as Dobbie had already been convicted of abusing eight of our fellow pupils.
Dobbie’s election to contest these charges despite his previous convictions meant that it was important that we ensured that nothing should be allowed to derail the trial. The first question that almost every advocate asks on the first day of the trial is: “are the witnesses here?. If they aren’t then the prosecution is in trouble. If they are and the trial has to happen again, some witnesses are unwilling to return.
Some of the comments during the trial were bizarre, such as the post about how do you write down “that the accused and his/her counsel behaved and sounded more guilty that the snake before Eve?” or to forget that a “peeler missed out a full stop”.
Thanks in no small measure to the education that I received at the school, I have plied my trade in the courts for nearly 35 years and the system has adapted to modern day life far more effectively than many of you realise. Far greater consideration is given to witnesses which is why the court is more likely to finish early than late as the prosecutor makes an assessment of how long each witness is likely to take, so that their attendance can be timetabled and thus staggered. If there are 10 witnesses, they will not all be required to attend on the first day of the trial but, say, 4 a day on days 1 and 2 and then 2 on day 3.
The court has also adapted to the fact that we have far more mobility and a far wider knowledge. In this case I anticipate that the jury will have been asked if they know of CH and, if so, whether they or any family member or friend attended the school and, if they have, they ill have been excluded from serving.
We cannot stop juries from looking at their phones but they are all warned at the outset not to do their own research on the internet, etc. While they are considering their verdicts, their mobile phones are taken from them. A jury cannot be kept incommunicado for days on end.
In the normal course of events, we don’t tell juries about a person’s previous misconduct, whether that person is a witness or defendant. And one of the directions that the judge gives the jury in summing up is to treat all witnesses equally, irrespective of the fact that the defendant comes from the dock to give his evidence.
It is not a perfect system but it is the best that we can do..
One of the exceptions to the jury not being told about a defendant’s previous misconduct is where it shows a propensity to commit offences of the kind charged in the case. Dobbie had already been convicted of offences against eight pupils so it seemed to me unarguable that his previous convictions would not be told to the jury. The jury was told of his previous convictions but that was not done until Monday and was not covered by the press and so the forum could not rely upon the newspaper reports to inform you of that.
Sentencing used to be very hit and miss but is now done by reference to a grid or matrix. For sexual offences you can find the guidelines here;
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp ... ne-Web.pdf
The idea is that the same factual scenario will be dealt with in broadly the same way in all courts in the country.
The judge has to determine which of three categories harm the offending falls into and also whether culpability falls under A or B.
A particularly aggravating feature in Dobbie’s case is the fact that he was convicted of offences against eight pupils last summer.
Having been convicted of offending against eight pupils, you might be forgiven for thinking that pleading guilty to number 9 would not make a lot of difference, particularly as his sentence for the ninth victim would be reduced to reflect his guilty plea. And you would be right.
But instead he chose to plead not guilty and tried to lie his way out of it. He also called character witnesses – pillars of the community – to say that he was not the sort of man to commit these sorts of offences, despite having been convicted of precisely that.
Not only is Dobbie a predatory paedophile, he is an inveterate liar who undoubtedly will have tried to use his calling to cover up his offending. That must have been obvious to the member of staff that victim 9 disclosed to. That member of staff appears to have known that not only would it all be swept under the carpet (or cassock even) but that the pupil could be jeopardised in his educational future, and was on the horns of a dilemma. His advice was – as I understand – intended for the long term protection of the pupil but he never forgot and did the honourable thing by giving evidence for the prosecution.
One final thought. Did Dobbie’s interest in boys end when he left CH or did he take it to Shrewsbury with him. If so, is there a storm there wait to erupt?
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Re: Trial of Gary William Dobbie

Post by cstegerlewis »

Welcome back Richard, you insight has ben missed during your well deserved rest from all this (although by the sounds of it you have been keeping a close eye on proceedings in the last week)
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DazedandConfused
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Re: Trial of Gary William Dobbie

Post by DazedandConfused »

Richard it’s great to see you back. I take it from your post that you’ve been in attendance at the trial?

I’m pleased to read that the teacher who had knowledge of events did the decent thing as a prosecution witness.

I have also wondered the same thing about Shrewsbury- Dobbie is now a convicted serial offender and it seems unlikely that he would have stopped overnight. Unless Shrewsbury didn’t make it as easy for him as apparently CH did?
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Re: Trial of Gary William Dobbie

Post by richardb »

cstegerlewis wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 4:19 pm Welcome back Richard, you insight has ben missed during your well deserved rest from all this (although by the sounds of it you have been keeping a close eye on proceedings in the last week)
Have no fear. I have been interfering from afar!!

I was a little stumped this morning when there was nothing about the case but it is apparent that the majority direction was given to the jury at about 11.40 this morning.

I wasn't at the trial but I am fortunate thani can read into what has been going on. I have been given a few snippets.

There have been times when I have felt that the witnesses have given evidence for all former pupils as it could have been any one of us.

If any of the victims read the forum, I hope they know that we all have the greatest of respect for them and what they have done.
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Re: Trial of Gary William Dobbie

Post by richardb »

DazedandConfused wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 4:23 pm Richard it’s great to see you back. I take it from your post that you’ve been in attendance at the trial?

I’m pleased to read that the teacher who had knowledge of events did the decent thing as a prosecution witness.

I have also wondered the same thing about Shrewsbury- Dobbie is now a convicted serial offender and it seems unlikely that he would have stopped overnight. Unless Shrewsbury didn’t make it as easy for him as apparently CH did?
I don't think it is for me to say about the teacher who was disclosed to as I don't know the full circumstances, but from his reaction it sounds as though Dobbie's proclivities were well known.
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Re: Trial of Gary William Dobbie

Post by DazedandConfused »

richardb wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 4:34 pm
DazedandConfused wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 4:23 pm Richard it’s great to see you back. I take it from your post that you’ve been in attendance at the trial?

I’m pleased to read that the teacher who had knowledge of events did the decent thing as a prosecution witness.

I have also wondered the same thing about Shrewsbury- Dobbie is now a convicted serial offender and it seems unlikely that he would have stopped overnight. Unless Shrewsbury didn’t make it as easy for him as apparently CH did?
I don't think it is for me to say about the teacher who was disclosed to as I don't know the full circumstances, but from his reaction it sounds as though Dobbie's proclivities were well known.
I was thinking about the school in a wider sense, rather than that individual teacher. The statement today says that “it is clear that abuse at Christ Hospital was enabled not only by the perpetrators who committed it, but by the environment in which it occurred“ which I agree with absolutely. Another school may have had a very different environment, not to mention that times were changing with a greater awareness of safeguarding within institutions by the time he left CH.
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Re: Trial of Gary William Dobbie

Post by richardb »

I think Dobbie will have relied upon his position in the Church to ward off any complaint and in all likelihood he would have been believed.
He sought to defend this trial by lying his way out of it and calling character witnesses. Quite what help a character witness was, given that he had already been convicted of doing exactly the same to eight other pupils.
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Re: Trial of Gary William Dobbie

Post by AMP »

Thank you Richarddb for such an informative post which has answered my remaining questions

The disclosure to the jury is unusual I think, unless the defence claim their client is a person of good character, but now you explain it, it makes perfect sense.

I hope he does not try to use that as a basis for an appeal
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Re: Trial of Gary William Dobbie

Post by DazedandConfused »

I’m amazed he still has people he can call upon to be character witnesses. They must be aware of his previous convictions so one must assume they believe him innocent of those also.

Out of interest, and not wanting to lead a witch hunt against the teacher who was witness for the prosecution, do you know whether the judge has prevented him from being named or whether the media just haven’t picked up on the detail in the way they did previously? There was much coverage of Poulton et al at the previous trials.
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