Sheila and Peter Higgins - character references for Gary Dobbie

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Pe.A
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Re: Sheila and Peter Higgins - character references for Gary Dobbie

Post by Pe.A »

rockfreak wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:07 pm Lesson from all this? Keep your children close. Don't send them away to be brought up by strangers on account of some social prestige that you think it will give you. Or them. OK, I know it happens at Catholic day schools, but that is because some Catholics are dumb enough to believe that the local priest holds the keys to heaven (however you perceive heaven). My three daughters went to state secondary schools and there was no whiff of a scandal in the twelve or so years that they were there, nor has been since if the local papers and the local grapevine give a true reflection. Get real, public school products - the system is outdated and DANGEROUS - and all the more so at CH because the pupils don't always have the social confidence of those at Eton or Harrow. Witness the girl from the dysfunctional background who was the victim of Husband and Dobbie.
I'd prefer to judge things on the relative merits/demerits rather than on polemic. CH, and boarding schools in general, would have changed significantly from your day, and mine in the 90s. I dont think its apologist or a kop out to say this. State schools can be a lottery depending where you live. More affluent areas have better schools. Politicians in London revel in the social prestige of sending their children to state schools, even though the schools would be in very well to do areas and most of the other children attending would come from a similar privileged background etc and the advantages that brings. I also know people who are teachers in London schools who regularly have to double up as social workers, and regularly liaise with Police about Gang activity. So i think there is a place for an institution like CH, especially given its status compared to the other elite schools. They've just got to find a way to lower the number of FFPs...
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Re: Sheila and Peter Higgins - character references for Gary Dobbie

Post by bakunin »

I just don't feel all that confident that boarding schools and CH in particular have changed sufficiently to prevent this stuff from going on. I feel that in the 90s when I was there people would have said the same thing, "we have the children's act and enlightened attitudes now". Might be harder to get away with than before, but the enclosed environment and the insular culture of pomposity and mindless tradition provides lots of opportunities for abuse.
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Re: Sheila and Peter Higgins - character references for Gary Dobbie

Post by jtaylor »

I may be naive, but I think there’s much more general awareness on the part of the kids themselves over what’s right, wrong, normal and inappropriate - along with a much stronger ethos to trust the child by default.

So I’d like the think it’s be better - but who knows..... I do hope so. I suspect that abuse in primary-age boarding could be more likely to go undetected, particularly if stupid parents (sorry, my opinion!) prevent age-appropriate sexuality and gender education at a sensibly early age.

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Re: Sheila and Peter Higgins - character references for Gary Dobbie

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bakunin wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:38 pm I just don't feel all that confident that boarding schools and CH in particular have changed sufficiently to prevent this stuff from going on. I feel that in the 90s when I was there people would have said the same thing, "we have the children's act and enlightened attitudes now". Might be harder to get away with than before, but the enclosed environment and the insular culture of pomposity and mindless tradition provides lots of opportunities for abuse.
That is a pity.

They have.
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Re: Sheila and Peter Higgins - character references for Gary Dobbie

Post by bakunin »

Great, well I'd love to see some concrete evidence of that.

We need more than just assurances, the school has committed gross errors. Poulton, Cairncross and Sillett should pay a price for letting this happen.

If there's even one case of abuse discovered in more recent years the school should be closed permanently.
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Re: Sheila and Peter Higgins - character references for Gary Dobbie

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bakunin wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:01 pm Great, well I'd love to see some concrete evidence of that.

We need more than just assurances, the school has committed gross errors. Poulton, Cairncross and Sillett should pay a price for letting this happen.

If there's even one case of abuse discovered in more recent years the school should be closed permanently.
So.my word as a former pupil and a teacher for 27 years at CH following a headship is worth nothing to you?

What is this concrete evidence you are seeking?
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Re: Sheila and Peter Higgins - character references for Gary Dobbie

Post by jtaylor »

Either all staff were 100% aware of what was going on back in the day.... or, it’s possible for staff to believe everything’s fine (and now, that it’s all changed), but there still to be problems in an organisation.

I’d suggest it’s extremely risky to suggest there’s 100% no problems, it’s 100% changed with no chance of abuse - it borders on irresponsible? It suggests a complacency and over-confidence?
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Re: Sheila and Peter Higgins - character references for Gary Dobbie

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bakunin wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:38 pm I just don't feel all that confident that boarding schools and CH in particular have changed sufficiently to prevent this stuff from going on. I feel that in the 90s when I was there people would have said the same thing, "we have the children's act and enlightened attitudes now". Might be harder to get away with than before, but the enclosed environment and the insular culture of pomposity and mindless tradition provides lots of opportunities for abuse.
Ok. Take your point, but something like internet has increased awareness of a lot of different topics etc, across the board and across the age ranges. Things like the fallout from the Jimmy Savile thing 7/8 years ago etc have also brought greater transparency...
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Re: Sheila and Peter Higgins - character references for Gary Dobbie

Post by Pe.A »

bakunin wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:01 pm Great, well I'd love to see some concrete evidence of that.

We need more than just assurances, the school has committed gross errors. Poulton, Cairncross and Sillett should pay a price for letting this happen.

If there's even one case of abuse discovered in more recent years the school should be closed permanently.
What exactly counts as concrete evidence?
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Re: Sheila and Peter Higgins - character references for Gary Dobbie

Post by harryh »

jtaylor wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:11 pm Either all staff were 100% aware of what was going on back in the day.... or, it’s possible for staff to believe everything’s fine (and now, that it’s all changed), but there still to be problems in an organisation.

I’d suggest it’s extremely risky to suggest there’s 100% no problems, it’s 100% changed with no chance of abuse - it borders on irresponsible? It suggests a complacency and over-confidence?
I take your point, Julian, but who is suggesting that everything is fine? As I have said before training has improved, awareness has improved, understanding has grown.

I also echo the point of another contributor that the children are far more aware of both acceptable and
Inappropriate behaviour.

Vigilance is key. I do not believe that complacency can now be levelled at the management team or the school at large.
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Re: Sheila and Peter Higgins - character references for Gary Dobbie

Post by bakunin »

Pe.A wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:07 am What exactly counts as concrete evidence?
Some kind of report on what safeguarding changes there have been with reference to studies that show these changes have a positive effect, or an independent study and report on the changes, something along those lines.
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Re: Sheila and Peter Higgins - character references for Gary Dobbie

Post by bakunin »

harryh wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:05 pm So.my word as a former pupil and a teacher for 27 years at CH following a headship is worth nothing to you?

What is this concrete evidence you are seeking?
See my previous post for examples of possible concrete evidence.

The fact that Dobbie et al got away with so much for so many years, without being noticed by you or so many other teachers suggests that the offenders are often very manipulative and difficult to detect, and that I shouldn't trust your judgment.
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Re: Sheila and Peter Higgins - character references for Gary Dobbie

Post by harryh »

bakunin wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:02 am
harryh wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:05 pm So.my word as a former pupil and a teacher for 27 years at CH following a headship is worth nothing to you?

What is this concrete evidence you are seeking?
See my previous post for examples of possible concrete evidence.

The fact that Dobbie et al got away with so much for so many years, without being noticed by you or so many other teachers suggests that the offenders are often very manipulative and difficult to detect, and that I shouldn't trust your judgment.
Guilty by default, then. Breathtaking.
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Re: Sheila and Peter Higgins - character references for Gary Dobbie

Post by Mid A 15 »

bakunin wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:02 am
harryh wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:05 pm So.my word as a former pupil and a teacher for 27 years at CH following a headship is worth nothing to you?

What is this concrete evidence you are seeking?
See my previous post for examples of possible concrete evidence.

The fact that Dobbie et al got away with so much for so many years, without being noticed by you or so many other teachers suggests that the offenders are often very manipulative and difficult to detect, and that I shouldn't trust your judgment.
When exactly did you develop the power of Extra Sensory Perception and how did you acquire it?

The modus operandi of paedophiles, from what I've read, is manipulation and deceit so by definition very hard for an outsider to detect.

Dobbie was way after my time but what I can say is that the Howard Holdsworth I was at CH with would have done the right thing and intervened to the best of his ability and power had he had a sniff of impropriety at the time.

Sillett, Poulton, Cairncross etc are a whole different ball game and I share the general disgust expressed for their actions, or rather inactions, even when apparently confronted with direct evidence from victims. The disgusting female Chaplain that ignored that poor girl is even worse.
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Re: Sheila and Peter Higgins - character references for Gary Dobbie

Post by Avon »

Mid A 15 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:46 amThe disgusting female Chaplain that ignored that poor girl is even worse.
Is it now established who this is?
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