Dobbie sentencing hearing

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Bob
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Re: Dobbie sentencing hearing

Post by Bob »

"...when he confided in a fellow teacher at the school he was told to "get over it and move on"."

Which heartless arse of a teacher said that? That is outrageous.
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Re: Dobbie sentencing hearing

Post by richardb »

It isn't what it seems Bob.

I will explain later but it actually was appropriate advice given the circumstances at the time.

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Re: Dobbie sentencing hearing

Post by Gingerbeard17 »

richardb wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:12 pm
It isn't what it seems Bob.

I will explain later but it actually was appropriate advice given the circumstances at the time.
I look forward to seeing your explanation, but as a mental health survivor for 50 plus years and worker for over 20 years I can honestly say I have never seen "get over it and move on" as either appropriate or useful advice.
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Re: Dobbie sentencing hearing

Post by Janey Jam-Jar »

Bob wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:03 pm
"...when he confided in a fellow teacher at the school he was told to "get over it and move on"."
That part of the report really stood out for me too. And, like Gingerbeard17, I look forward to a bit of explanation around it if possible.
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Re: Dobbie sentencing hearing

Post by richardb »

Right, here we go.

I hope that I am faithfully repeating what was reported to me during the second trial about a member of staff telling the victim to "man up".

The disclosure was made at a time when the victim had important matters coming up which had significant implications for his future career.

The member of staff feared that, if the pupil pursued his disclosure, there would be a backlash against him which had a detrimental effect on the pupil's future. Accordingly he advised him to get on with it.

Don't forget that this was around the time when Cairncross, Sillett etc held sway.

When Dobbie's first trial was going on last year. The member of staff contacted the pupil and encouraged him to come forward, which he did.

Given the culture at the school 25+ years ago, the member of staff did what he thought was best for the pupil at the time. I for one would not criticise what he did given what emerged about the cover up in the Karim trial.

If I have got this wrong, hopefully someone will correct me.
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Re: Dobbie sentencing hearing

Post by scrub »

Thanks for that, like others I was trying to work out whether that was as bad as it sounded.
richardb wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:34 pm
Given the culture at the school 25+ years ago, the member of staff did what he thought was best for the pupil at the time.
Regardless of anyone's feelings towards the teacher in question, that's a fairly damning statement about CH at the time, and also speaks to the general level of knowledge of events at that level.
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Re: Dobbie sentencing hearing

Post by Gingerbeard17 »

Richard
This raises so many questions. 25 years before the teacher thought it was safe to report? Was the teacher protecting the boy or his fellow staff? Was the language used by the teacher supportive? Did the boy feel supported or fobbed off.
I don't expect you to be able to answer these questions Richard only the two people involved can but I'm surprised you have accepted the explanation verbatim.
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Re: Dobbie sentencing hearing

Post by richardb »

I wasn't at the trial and rely on what others who were present tell me.

The clear impression I have is that the teacher's actions were not in the nature of the cover up. There was no love lost between the teacher and some of those involved in the events over the years.

Suffice to say that in his defence, Dobbie claimed that the teacher had orchestrated the new allegations against him. That doesn't strike me as a cover up.

I should add that - as I understand it - the teacher gave evidence and explained his comments. His evidence was not reported in the media.
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Re: Dobbie sentencing hearing

Post by DazedandConfused »

Bob wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:03 pm
"...when he confided in a fellow teacher at the school he was told to "get over it and move on"."

Which heartless arse of a teacher said that? That is outrageous.
That was my initial reaction too. Having read Richard’s follow up posts I think it says more about the leadership team than it does about the teacher in question. There are several members of staff, who I’ve always considered to be decent, that I can imagine giving this advice with the best of intentions. The saddest thing of all is that I have a feeling their advice was probably correct at the time, given how the school handled other complaints.

I wish there had been more detailed reporting of the teacher’s evidence.
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Re: Dobbie sentencing hearing

Post by AMP »

Great credit to Richard for relaying this and not being intimidated by the obvious anticipated indignation.

So important to be able to relay the facts however unpalatable, and what a revelation.

A court of law has now heard about the culture of fear and preferment which prevailed, and this along with the empty time periods either side of CH employment for some needs to be looked at.
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Re: Dobbie sentencing hearing

Post by Gingerbeard17 »

I am not addressing this to Richard, who has been so helpful throughout this whole episode, as I don't believe in shooting the messenger.
The teacher lived with knowing what had happened , certainly with this boy, probably at least suspecting others without acting on it for over 25 years. The teacher, who had a duty of care, did nothing when a boy came to him for help.
Even if he was not a player in the cover up he became an accessory as soon as he chose inaction. I struggle to accept his defence even though I accept that the management of the school was toxic. The teacher coukd have offered outlets to the boy , Childline was in place and there were other agencies that could have helped without a major fallout. To offer no help and to use the words quoted, in my view and with my experience, would have caused additional distress and harm, leaving the boy with nowhere to turn.
At any time in the intervening years the teacher could have spoken out and prevented other children being harmed,. he didn't,.
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Re: Dobbie sentencing hearing

Post by scrub »

Agree with everything you've said, and this in particular;
Gingerbeard17 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:00 am
At any time in the intervening years the teacher could have spoken out and prevented other children being harmed,. he didn't,.
gets to the heart of why a lot of people who were at the school at the time feel the way they do about the place now.
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Re: Dobbie sentencing hearing

Post by jtaylor »

Agree - my feelings for the place have definitely changed in the last couple of years, and it’s triggered much introspection over what happened to me and my friends in my time there.
Seeing all the happy pics of Old Blues’ Day felt very dissonant- I felt like shouting “don’t you realise what was going on when you were there??” - I wonder if there was any acknowledgement of the recent trials in any way on Old Blues Day, to encourage others to come forward and ensure everything’s getting out in the open? Difficult to do, I know, but I do wonder....
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Re: Dobbie sentencing hearing

Post by Gingerbeard17 »

I think it is interesting but sad that the number of posters on this site has diminished, apparently because of the revelations. I haven't seen any posts by ex masters for a while and a lot of pupils that were sceptical of the accusations have disappeared. The last few months have had a huge effect on us all and I hope that the school has learned and improved because of it. Like the previous 2 posters my feelings towards the school have changed and I don't think I can ever attend an old blues day or even a local old blues gathering which is sad.
On the plus side there are a number of posters still here that have restored my faith in CH humanity and, whether you like it or not, I'm here for the foreseeable future.
I may also have had a pint too many tonight... but purely as a coping mechanism.
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Re: Dobbie sentencing hearing

Post by richardb »

There was a period when I stayed off the forum as I didn't feel that some posters were taking the issue seriously.

I am one of those who has a view which has been affected by what has happened. I think it is the realisation that it could have been me.

What has struck me is the number of people who feel the same as me.

The emphasis now has to be to support the victims. They deserve our utmost respect.
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