Here's a hypothetical

[Avon]

Think it was 'fairly' standard for similar boarding schools at the time. A key point was that you were not 'buying' alcohol in the Club. You exchanged money for chits somewhere else and I think possibly this could not happen while the club was open. You then exchanged the chits for the drink. The chits were issued only by housemaster and number issued recorded, etc.

I pretty much drank for free in my grecians. The chits weren’t the most sophisticated of documents. Once I’d identified the colour of paper for the chits and bought enough of the paper from prontaprint, then it was possible to photocopy chits, cut them to shape, and with a watchmakers screwdriver, reproduce the serrations.

No doubt my academic results suffered accordingly.

[sejintenej]

In this country we see long established concepts being made unacceptable just because one person ws injured/killed. I would cite the pressure on the traditional British breakfast of fried eggs, fatty bacon etc swamped by cooking fat.........

The good old-fashioned moral panics...

A new one today from the USA:
shock horror, panic on Wall Street. - 6% of CEOs have private pilots licences. They want companies to cut down on the private time risks that senior officers take such as rock climbing, fast car driving ...... and suggest that companies should not even consider hiring such people.
What America does today Britain will do next week.

It happens in the UK; a senior board member of one of the big banks used his head to break the perspex window of a boat during a Fastnet race. Later, as Chairman and I think in his seventies, he did his first parachute jump. (He admitted that he didn't tell other board members in advance) He is now dead

As you write: good old-fashioned moral panics ......

[sejintenej]

I think in the 90s the 16-18 age bracket were allowed alcohol in a pub if the drink was bought by an adult.

Had a word with a cop who was responsible for checking and giving recommendations to licencing authorities. New to him.

Living in Brighton with pub 2 paces from the side door (three paces on the return, drunk) we were having a birthday drink when Messrs Plod walked in and interviewed two of us. When questioned I was truly over nineteen and the girl they interrogated was celebrating her 18th birthday that day (true). They didn't ask any more of the fifteen, perhaps twenty in our party - not one of whom was even 18!

[Pe.A]

How did the the Grecians' Club, which presumably had a licence, get away with serving alcohol to under-age drinkers?

Special licence from the council. I heard rumours there was a masonic connection with someone at the council. No idea if true or not. I don't know what to believe anymore to be honest!

I think it was because the pupil didnt buy the alcohol directly. Money was given to the housemaster who issued the chits, and these were exchanged for the drinks, thus buffering the pupil from the actual transaction. In any case, what a way to pass a Friday and Saturday night...

[Pe.A]

In this country we see long established concepts being made unacceptable just because one person ws injured/killed. I would cite the pressure on the traditional British breakfast of fried eggs, fatty bacon etc swamped by cooking fat.........

The good old-fashioned moral panics...

What America does today Britain will do next week.

/i]

Yes. I agree. I suspect that in the event of a no deal Brexit, we'll slowly drift towards some sort of economic (or political?!) union with the US (and other English speaking countries). But with tbe US' economic and demographic strength, we'll be swallowed up. So much for sovereignty...

[Foureyes]

I fail to see what this has to do with C.H. and historical abuse. If you want to discuss Brexit or other political matters there are other sites available.
David

[BillH]

I was in Maine A (deps and grecians) in 1985/86. I don't remember any of this!

[BillH]

I'm going to take a controversial view here: much of this is bullshit.

I was there in Maine A as a dep in 1984/85 and as a grecian in 1985/86. There simply was not a culture of beating people up because they weren't "acting in the spirit of the house". Nobody gave a toss about such ideas, we were far too laid back.

The allegation made here by Lenny is that he suffered bullying by B**** and his gang. I don't know who B**** and his gang refers to - some real names might help. It sounds very grim. The blame is clearly on B**** and his gang. If the complaints were reported to the school and the school didn't act, then blame falls on the school. If Lenny suffered in silence, it's hard to know what the school could have done.

There is nothing else concrete. Yes, some boys were invited up to McCall's study. But Lenny can't make any substantive allegations about anything that happened there. Yes, Dobbie is now a convicted paedophile but Lenny doesn't make any specific allegations against him.

So, I disagree with the claim that "Everyone who was in Maine A at the time will testify to it." I wasn't one of the cool kids, neither was I subjected to abuse but I think my experience was typical.

[richardb]

One has to be careful about naming names, so please think carefully before you post.

[J.R.]

One has to be careful about naming names, so please think carefully before you post.

I totally agree.

[sejintenej]

I'm going to take a controversial view here: much of this is bullshit.

I was there in Maine A as a dep in 1984/85 and as a grecian in 1985/86. There simply was not a culture of beating people up because they weren't "acting in the spirit of the house". Nobody gave a toss about such ideas, we were far too laid back.

In 195+ there was no "Spirit of the House" in Col A either. Sounds like a half-hearted excuse to bully someone and should have been treated as such.

The allegation made here by Lenny is that he suffered bullying by B**** and his gang. I don't know who B**** and his gang refers to - some real names might help. It sounds very grim. The blame is clearly on B**** and his gang. If the complaints were reported to the school and the school didn't act, then blame falls on the school. If Lenny suffered in silence, it's hard to know what the school could have done.

More than a bit difficult. I was put into the sicker by a ****** who, thank God, is dead (and I hope it was a painful death). Kit "knew" and named who it was but when he interviewed me in the sicker I had a choice - name a deputy grecian 4 +years older than me and wonder if I would survive the next night with eyes or testicles of life OR not confirm the name. Given that the ****** had four perhaps five people to hold me as he smashed my face then the decision was not hard.

Certainly I received none and would never have receives any support from the school even for the eye damage. CH was simply a matter of survival any way one could. The school even refused an "invitation" from the Palace - that is how they responded to outside authority

[rockfreak]

All this anguished stuff about who might have been a paedo and who not makes me laugh. No children (or ex-children) should be having this conversation. My three daughters went to state secondary school over about a 12 year period and there was no whiff of scandal then or since. Except in very exceptional circumstances boarding schools are redundant. Why do you want to send your children away to be brought up by strangers? Other civilised countries don't do it. Previous societies who have done it include the ancient Spartans, the Order of Jesuits and our old colonial expats in Canada, Australia and New Zealand who took indigenous children away from their families in order to educate them in Muscular Christianity (with the emphasis on the muscular). Check out some of the old sepia pictures of those times to see how miserable the children looked. In recent years the countries concerned have made official apologies to the people concerned. Why is it that the social services in today's world try to get a troubled child into a foster family rather than an institution?

This website has set me to wondering why it is that there are still people trying to defend the indefensible. Calling me a leftie, for instance, when I imagine that I probably represent a large part of the 93% who can't afford private education (and probably don't want their kids to board) and who would simply rather see the state system brought up to par by more progressive taxation and firmer political will. This debate that we're having would be unthinkable anywhere else in western Europe. Is it that most Old Blues have moved on and forgotten their schooldays so that this site merely represents a rump of people who have some kind of official attachment to the school?

[sejintenej]

Rockfreak seems to blindly consider that state schools are perfect.
1) unauthorised cameras transmitting images from the girls. changing rooms
2) Headmaster refused t a request o warn pupils about behaviour which led directly to the violent death of one of his pupils a while later.
3) two state schools refused to teach a dyslexic pupil; one consigned him to the back of a classroom and ignored him, the other left him to "help" backward children and failed to help him.
4) Teachers ignoring their intended A level subjects and lecturing pupilds on the perfection of the labour unions

State schools are NOT good as my family has found out

[jtaylor]

I teach GCSE maths to students from local state schools - the kids can be bright, but the single biggest thing missing?? Aspiration!
If nothing else, at least in my time, CH applauded achievement, in whatever field it was that you chose. You didn’t get bullied for being clever (at least from what I saw, and I wasn’t clever!) and the culture certainly seemed to be to achieve the best you could.

[Foureyes]

Dear Rockfreak,
I object to many of your posts, not on the grounds of your political views (which you make no effort to hide) but because you are patronising, make sweeping and unsupported assumptions, and are frequently simply inaccurate.

You say, "..Why do you want to send your children away to be brought up by strangers? Other civilised countries don't do it." That is quite simply wrong. I suggest that you consult https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boarding_schools, which I think that even you would have to agree is a rather long list! (Incidentally, this has nothing to do with forcibly removing indigenous children to educate them in "white man's ways", which was wrong and I would condemn as heartily as you do, but that is past - the schools in the wiki list quoted above are here and now.)

Secondly, you fail to mention the forty-odd UK state-supported boarding schools in England and Wales. These are excellent establishments and show what can be achieved by a combination of state and private resources.

Thirdly, you say that the children looked miserable in those old sepia photographs. The fact is that virtually everybody in those old photographs looked serious, because taking a physical likeness was a very serious business, and you will find very few pictures of people smiling or laughing. I have looked at hundreds of such old pics in the course of research and there is nary a smile among them! Some may have been miserable, but I am prepared to bet that most were not.

Finally, for now, you say: "...Is it that most Old Blues have moved on and forgotten their schooldays so that this site merely represents a rump of people who have some kind of official attachment to the school?" Unlike you, I do not set myself up as representing any one other than myself, but I can say that I have no official connection with the school whatsoever, and that I look back on my time there (1948-55) with pleasure and gratitude. Yes, there were some things that could have been done better - perhaps, in some cases not at all - but the overall balance was very positive.

I am very happy for you and your daughters that they had such good experiences at a state school. But I can assure you that there are also some poor state schools and a few wicked people in them - just as there in almost every human organisation.

David