Here's a hypothetical

This section was setup in August 2018 in order to move the existing related discussions from other sections into this new section to group them together, and separate from the other CH-related topics.

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Blindandstupid
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Re: Here's a hypothetical

Post by Blindandstupid »

Blimey. I seem to have stirred up a hornets nest here.

Yes, the feeling was one of embarrassment, and we coped with it in a very British way. We had coffee and toast around his kitchen table in the morning, as if nothing had ever happened. I also remember feeling “well at least he didn’t try that while I was at school”. I agree - in isolation - It was a pass on an older man, that was rebuffed. No harm done.

I think that they were just getting going in ‘86. Dobbie only arrived in ‘85/‘86 and we all knew he was a wrong ‘un Then. We had a bit of school boy doggerel about him:

“His name is Gary Dobbs,
And he likes throat swabs (fnnaarr)
He is a naughty vicar,
And he likes the smell of knickers”

I can’t remember the rest of it - but we obviously knew he was bad. There were no rumours about McCall at that time. None. That was why I assumed it was just a pass at an older bloke, that didn’t matter. I think Dobbie was the catalyst that turned McCall from latent to active. Only in hindsight 30 years later with all of the information do I now possibly see it for what it was, the start of a habit that would come to fruition 8 years later.

You could play the “ what if” game here. Would I have been believed/taken seriously by the school or police in 1986/7. I doubt it - no harm was done. It might have scared him off, but again - I doubt it - Dobbie was too influential.

I’m going to finish my posts with this one as I’m not sure (understandably) that the tenor of the debate is entirely impartial.

This thread began with Lenny saying he was bullied because he wouldn’t join in the McCall drinking sessions . We have heard from Bill that he didn’t join in either, yet he wasn’t bullied, and neither Bill nor I recognise the culture that Lenny describes of Maine A in ‘85/‘86. I agree with Bill that if Lenny was bullied, it wasn’t because of McCall’s drinking sessions. It could just have been simple, nasty kids. For which I am sorry.

Lenny also said that he would be happy to see the school turned into cheap flats. While this reaction is fully understandable in Lenny’s case, he wants revenge- I disagree. We are in danger of forgetting the thousands of lives that have been fundamentally changed for the better by the education they received there (such as mine). There are also thousands of lives in the future that can be changed by the school. If we allow, or worse encourage the school to be ruined or closed by these dreadful, Abusive Masters - won’t they really have won?

Please believe me - I am not some sort of apologist for the school - I was a minor witness in the Roger Martin case (which is where I heard about this forum), and was over the moon when he got everything he deserved.

I certainly benefited absolutely by everything I experienced at CH. As long as the new regime is foolproof in the child protection stakes, the school has to continue taking Children who would not have opportunity, giving them that chance and sending them out into the world for a better and brighter future.

The concept of CH can be such a force for good, yes, we need to sort out the dreadful problems of the past, but not forget to look forward to the brighter future for as yet, unborn generations.

Peter
ALKR
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Re: Here's a hypothetical

Post by ALKR »

richardb wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:34 pm Your case isn't thin. It was a sexual assault on you. End of.

Where do you think McCall is living?
He's in South Africa
ALKR
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Re: Here's a hypothetical

Post by ALKR »

richardb wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:50 pm McCall's name keeps coming up.

He appears to have either died or gone abroad.

One can't help thinking he will be happy to be as elusive as Lord Lucan.
McCall is living in South Africa. I have this on the authority of the Police, when I reported him for sexual assault a couple of years ago
If enough people want him extradited, they need to put pressure on Horsham police.
ALKR
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Re: Here's a hypothetical

Post by ALKR »

In response to all speculation on his whereabouts, I can confirm that McCall was in South Africa up until three years ago, no doubt fulfilling his predilections...
richardb
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Re: Here's a hypothetical

Post by richardb »

The fact that McCall is still alive has been confirmed from other sources. I am sure Sussex Police have a cup of instant coffee and a microwave meal ready for his return.
robert totterdell
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Re: Here's a hypothetical

Post by robert totterdell »

McCall I believe is alive and well. The last info that I got was he was in Thailand but that may have been for a visit. If he is in RSA then he will only be allowed there for a 3 month period at a time which he can extend to 6 months - but you have to leave for 2 weeks (that was the rule back in 2006 when I had a restaurant in the Western Cape) and then re-enter.

Swaziland and Lesotho have different rules. In 2008 you had to have an investment of £2 million Rand to be able to apply for Residency (at that time that was about £200k). I think it's now about R5million but with the drop in the rand he could do that, I guess. You have to prove income as well, such as a pension.

If he is there it will be a nightmare for the police to get him extradited. The entire legal system in RSA is corrupt and based on money. It took us R860 (about £86) to get a Licence for the restaurant. No checks no nothing - the person doing it got 25% the authorities (police) 25% and the balance went to the Government where about 5% was actually given to the exchequer and the rest dished out to officials.

Paper work over there is less efficient than in the 19th C.

McCall's name has come up time and again: I only remember him as drunk most of the time in Mid A. But there were suspicions.

I have just attended Neil Simms Memorial Service and ERM came up in discussions afterwards and not for the right reasons, so to speak.

This is not very helpful but there are others who are trying to bring some of the other perpetrators to justice - it takes time and one hell of a lot of evidence! Trust me I know as whilst Burr pleaded guilty to some of his actions against me he did not to the critical one (the worst) and the matter remains on file unless someone else can corroborate the evidence.

Of course if CH was a bit more open and honest (and trust me they have not been) then perhaps records could be forthcoming which would aid the police.

I have spent over two years looking at these issues - it is a minefield!
Elvie
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Re: Here's a hypothetical

Post by Elvie »

I hope McCall is found before he gasps his pathetic last. I think he might be the most prolific of the lot, typically the worst evade their comeuppance. What can we do?
LHA
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Re: Here's a hypothetical

Post by LHA »

ALKR wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:52 am
richardb wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:50 pm McCall's name keeps coming up.

He appears to have either died or gone abroad.

One can't help thinking he will be happy to be as elusive as Lord Lucan.
McCall is living in South Africa. I have this on the authority of the Police, when I reported him for sexual assault a couple of years ago
If enough people want him extradited, they need to put pressure on Horsham police.
Hi ALKR

Thanks for this brave post and for reporting Ernest McCall.

Is there any information about his whereabouts in South Africa or an online trace of the same? Were Sussex Police not willing to consider extradition proceedings?

Is there any why the forum can help? i.e.

publicise and evidence his whereabouts in South Africa? Including making the South African public aware of his whereabouts and the convictions of many of McCall's former colleagues (he is of course at this time an innocent man). They may take a view of whether they wish to continue to host him?

contacting MPs / Chief Constable etc re the same?

Maybe McCall needs a thread of his own.
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J.R.
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Re: Here's a hypothetical

Post by J.R. »

LHA wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:18 am
ALKR wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:52 am
richardb wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:50 pm McCall's name keeps coming up.

He appears to have either died or gone abroad.

One can't help thinking he will be happy to be as elusive as Lord Lucan.
McCall is living in South Africa. I have this on the authority of the Police, when I reported him for sexual assault a couple of years ago
If enough people want him extradited, they need to put pressure on Horsham police.
Hi ALKR

Thanks for this brave post and for reporting Ernest McCall.

Is there any information about his whereabouts in South Africa or an online trace of the same? Were Sussex Police not willing to consider extradition proceedings?

Is there any why the forum can help? i.e.

publicise and evidence his whereabouts in South Africa? Including making the South African public aware of his whereabouts and the convictions of many of McCall's former colleagues (he is of course at this time an innocent man). They may take a view of whether they wish to continue to host him?

contacting MPs / Chief Constable etc re the same?

Maybe McCall needs a thread of his own.

You're more than welcome to start one. It seems there are many references to the said person.

Just remember the legal implications in your wording. J.R.
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.
robert totterdell
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Re: Here's a hypothetical

Post by robert totterdell »

A WARNING TO ALL

If allegations against a perpetrator are advertised either on this site or in the press it can have an influence on whether the person can face trial.

Be careful. We may all think that McCall may have done things but he remains innocent until proven guilty and only the courts can do that.

The fact that I think he is undoubtedly guilty as much as Winnie our dog of stealing her treats on a regular basis, does not mean he is.

I can say the police are aware of him. Wait and see.

Rob
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Mid A 15
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Re: Here's a hypothetical

Post by Mid A 15 »

On the same theme but different person was it ever determined whether or not 'the man with the white jaguar' was still alive?
Ma A, Mid A 65 -72
Lenny
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Re: Here's a hypothetical

Post by Lenny »

BillH wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:59 am I'm going to take a controversial view here: much of this is bullshit.

I was there in Maine A as a dep in 1984/85 and as a grecian in 1985/86. There simply was not a culture of beating people up because they weren't "acting in the spirit of the house". Nobody gave a toss about such ideas, we were far too laid back.

The allegation made here by Lenny is that he suffered bullying by B**** and his gang. I don't know who B**** and his gang refers to - some real names might help. It sounds very grim. The blame is clearly on B**** and his gang. If the complaints were reported to the school and the school didn't act, then blame falls on the school. If Lenny suffered in silence, it's hard to know what the school could have done.

There is nothing else concrete. Yes, some boys were invited up to McCall's study. But Lenny can't make any substantive allegations about anything that happened there. Yes, Dobbie is now a convicted paedophile but Lenny doesn't make any specific allegations against him.

So, I disagree with the claim that "Everyone who was in Maine A at the time will testify to it." I wasn't one of the cool kids, neither was I subjected to abuse but I think my experience was typical.
Just because you don’t recall it. Or it doesn’t fit with your own version of events. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
Lenny
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Re: Here's a hypothetical

Post by Lenny »

Hello!

It's been a while. Life. Blah blah.

When thoughts of CH cross my mind, I end up back here. It's a spot where I can mull over the mix of memories – the good, the tough, and the downright disturbing.

After reading the entire thread, there are some real food-for-thought moments in there. What I took away is that I massively appreciate that this community is one where people actually listen, think, and connect with each other's stories. Seems like many have taken a moment to reflect on their own experiences in light of mine.

Thanks for that. Even if there are doubts or disagreements, it means a lot that you took the time to hear me out. For that alone. Long may this place continue.

Big shoutout to those who reached out via direct messages. Especially you Veggie... You were a legend back then. A legend now.. I'd genuinely like to buy you a pint if you ever read this.

I didn't expect everyone to see eye to eye; I was just sharing my thoughts, hoping to add a bit of context. Hesitated to involve the authorities, but I believed an authentic investigation might find its way to this forum. Whether it's considered hearsay or not, every piece contributes to the bigger picture.

The public nature of this forum is pretty significant. It's a place that anyone doing some digging might stumble upon. I consider this place somewhere you can talk about CH honestly and openly, and within reason, nobody stops you. So valuable.

A useful resource for people thinking about sending their kids to CH in my mind. They need to be aware of the true history of the school. Not just the stuff in the brochure, from the people who went there.

blah blah something happened a long time ago. 1666, some king or something.. Important... Colonialism.. Blah blah

It's not a cult. It's not the Freemasons. It's a **** school.

Probably less so now. But back in the days I'm talking about?

Definitely cultish.

The teenage years I went through might not resonate with everyone, and I get that time tends to add its own layers to memories. Standing by my story doesn't mean I'm unaware of the complexities involved. The tough times stick, and the good ones tend to blur together.

Adulthood, with its layers, reveals motives and paints a more intricate picture. It's interesting how certain aspects of my story, if not the whole narrative, seem to have struck a chord with others. This realization has been more meaningful than words can express.

Everyone I've stayed connected with from CH over the years is genuinely good-hearted. You are all good people.

For a long time, I believed my experiences were unique to me, but as the thread unfolded, it became evident that I'm not alone in certain aspects.

Big thanks to this forum for providing a platform to share my thoughts and experiences. To everyone on this thread, even those who might have dismissed my account as nonsensical, thanks for engaging, offering your perspective, and caring enough to participate in the conversation.

At 52 and a half, I'm still navigating the emotional aftermath of my time at CH, and in those moments when I need support, this place has been a valuable resource. Thank you.

Apologies for the ad popping up every time I make an edit – won't be making any more changes.

I'll step out now. Thanks for listening.
Janey Jam-Jar
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Re: Here's a hypothetical

Post by Janey Jam-Jar »

Really glad to read a follow-up to your initial postings, Lenny. I remember reading them and holding my breath because what you wrote came across as so visceral and impassioned - and chimed with some of my thoughts too. But I wasn't in an emotional place to respond then.
Lenny wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 10:43 pm ... Big thanks to this forum for providing a platform to share my thoughts and experiences ...
Agree. Julian and admins did a splendid job keeping this channel open especially through the criminal investigations. The forum was my first foray into exfoliating myself of my CH experiences and I too was hugely grateful for it. I wouldn't have met Rob Totterdell or reconnected with Duncan Forbes and others, wouldn't have spoken to the listening service, gone to some of the gatherings, reaped the benefits of the self-help group and hopefully given a shoulder to lean on and an ear to hear others.
Lenny wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 10:43 pm ... For a long time, I believed my experiences were unique to me, but as the thread unfolded, it became evident that I'm not alone in certain aspects ...
I hear that. My big take away from 2023 is that it didn't start with me, it wasn't my fault, and it wasn't about 'me'. The coming together and sharing with other OBs has rubbed off the edges and softened me enough to allow some compassion to the child/young person I was back then.

Wishing pleasant peregrinations of mind and body to everyone through 2024.

Catherine Standing (Cooper)
Col A and 1s 1983-90
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