Bishop Ball documentary BBC2 2100 TONIGHT

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Avon
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Re: Bishop Ball documentary BBC2 2100 TONIGHT

Post by Avon »

I was something of a night walker, quite often poking around in the dark hours. There were some fascinating places to explore and security was appalling. If I remember correctly the only places I didn’t get into - over time - were the Wardrobe and Armoury. Everything else I explored on moonlit nights, with total freedom.

Seeing people in the wee hours wasn’t unusual, but I never encountered what I would have regarded as a watchman.

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Re: Bishop Ball documentary BBC2 2100 TONIGHT

Post by wurzel »

AMP wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:11 pm
jtaylor wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:08 am
Same in my day, 1985 to 1992.
No doors ever locked, and no boundary security of any sort, except the mythical “night watchman”
Haha, that brings back memories, the night watchman with 1200 acres to patrol.

Ridiculous really, but I suppose it ticked a box in the insurance.

Masters could drive their cars freely through East, West and North Lodge Gates which were never closed.

Wopplegate was just a path with a stile at the end so not car friendly.

Never did know how they got to and from the Bax Castle.

Assume they drove the long way round.

No need to worry about drink driving in those days
When Shipham had his rorty Renault 5 Turbo you could hear every gear change in LHA from when he left Lamb out main gate and then back up 2 mile Ash. Sometimes he returned same route, other times he came back via the wopplegate track which had a 5 bar gate and no stile as it was also the route the contractors Osgoods used for access for their heavy equipment to clear up after the 87 storm (the huge bonfire was created in the field between wopplegate track and the grass in front of LH/Ma ), I assumed his choice was dependant upon amount imbibed but that could be totally wrong. This is the end of that track today, it has to stay open as a public footpath runs down it https://goo.gl/maps/JiL6a3zDVQM9wYFe9

In the summer holidays of 88 i taught by step brother clutch control on a 125 motorcycle on the mile as i lived local and Peele gates were never locked (access needed to Theatre as it was open to public), we were there about an hour before a bokker accosted us and even then once he ascertained i was a pupil he just explained it was because they were worried about off road bikes being ridden onto the first XI pitch.

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Re: Bishop Ball documentary BBC2 2100 TONIGHT

Post by sejintenej »

wurzel wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:26 am

In the summer holidays of 88 i taught by step brother clutch control on a 125 motorcycle on the mile as i lived local and Peele gates were never locked
Totally off topic; my mother's employer (who later became my semi-adopted father) taught me to drive on private property from when I was about 11 and taught me to change gear without using the clutch - that is a form of double de-clutching. After that it got complicated - changing from 2 to 4 wheel drive and vice versa or changing to propeller drive in the water.
The Department of Health is looking to hire couples married seven years or more to educate people on social distancing.

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Re: Bishop Ball documentary BBC2 2100 TONIGHT

Post by wurzel »

sejintenej wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:59 pm
wurzel wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:26 am

In the summer holidays of 88 i taught by step brother clutch control on a 125 motorcycle on the mile as i lived local and Peele gates were never locked
Totally off topic; my mother's employer (who later became my semi-adopted father) taught me to drive on private property from when I was about 11 and taught me to change gear without using the clutch - that is a form of double de-clutching. After that it got complicated - changing from 2 to 4 wheel drive and vice versa or changing to propeller drive in the water.
Amphicar?

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Re: Bishop Ball documentary BBC2 2100 TONIGHT

Post by Pe.A »

bakunin wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:19 pm
jtaylor wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:15 pm
Watched the second part tonight - harrowing.

The use of the phrase “non-recent” abuse or “historical abuse” by CH has always grated with me - somehow made it maybe feel like ages ago, and maybe somehow less significant.....but have never been able to articulate quite why.
They shouldn't be allowed to call it "historical abuse" until they have PROVED it isn't still going on. The default assumption should be that it still is. No one currently or previously employed there has been able to give any substantial, concrete description of how safeguarding procedures have improved, except for having a security perimeter, which actually makes things worse as it traps the kids inside CH more, it makes CH even more of an isolated community (and we know isolation enables child abuse). Every single child abuse act committed against the pupils of Christs' Hospital was done by people who worked there, as far as we know. There were no paedos lurking in bushes waiting for an unsuspecting pupil in Shelley's wood or desperately pawing at the gates trying to get in, every single crime that we know of was committed by a teacher or priest (priest is merely a synonym for useless layabout and manipulator, or worse).
I think you are missing something with this: the reason it's referred to as historical is due to the Year Zero event which was the emergence of the Jimmy Savile revelations, which was a bit like someone dropping a boulder into a mill pond causing a massive amount of ripples and churning up a lot of very nasty, murky stuff from the past. It was precisely this which laid the groundwork for people to come forward. Similar to the later #metoo. The only thing I can remember from the past of a 'high profile' figure being outed as a serial abuser was Gary Glitter in the early-ish 90s, but that was before the internet/social media age so there were no outward ripples on that one. Without the jimmy Savile reveltions I doubt we would have seen so many people come forward with their experiences of football clubs, etc
Last edited by Pe.A on Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bishop Ball documentary BBC2 2100 TONIGHT

Post by Pe.A »

AMP wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:30 pm
Until CH explains how the abuse was able to happen, it can't say with confidence that it couldn't happen again.

If on the other hand it knows it can't happen again, then please explain how it was able to happen.

There were one or two stories of "dirty old men" from outside managing to gain access to the toilets by the changing rooms.

Like "paedo" Webb, those things weren't taken that seriously by the circles I moved in, instead viewed as harmless pervs, which looking back was very naive.

Little did we know what was really going on.
"There were one or two stories of "dirty old men" " Really...?

" those things weren't taken that seriously by the circles I moved in, instead viewed as harmless pervs, which looking back was very naïve" It was a much more trusting age, certainly of people in authority positions

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Re: Bishop Ball documentary BBC2 2100 TONIGHT

Post by Pe.A »

Otter wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:16 pm
scrub wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:58 pm
Met the (or a?) nightwatchman a couple of times. I guess reporting you for being out would have been more hassle than it was worth for him, so as long as you weren't doing anything stupid, he'd just have a chat and remind you to lock up when you went back to house.
I was never sure if this mythical person was real. Was it a designated post or something that all staff members did on a rota?
In the 90s it was a grey haired gent with a Border Collie by his side

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Re: Bishop Ball documentary BBC2 2100 TONIGHT

Post by richardb »

These things have gone in phases.

They went through scout masters, then care homes, then young offenders institutions, the entertainment (Saville, DLT etc) " then football coaches.

Teachers have come on at various stages.

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Re: Bishop Ball documentary BBC2 2100 TONIGHT

Post by Pe.A »

richardb wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:18 pm
These things have gone in phases.

They went through scout masters, then care homes, then young offenders institutions, the entertainment (Saville, DLT etc) " then football coaches.

Teachers have come on at various stages.
True. There have been media frenzies in the past. I can just about remember some sort of moral panic in the late 80s regarding care homes and scoutmasters, but those brought attention to crimes of the time. The Jimmy Savile case is the one which laid the groundwork for things to be brought up from the past. Maybe it was the scale of his offences, maybe it was because we were well entrenched in the internet/social media age etc which allowed people to share information and check notes, as such. But the scale of cases being brought up from 30/40 even 50 years prior is surely unprecedented (?)

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Re: Bishop Ball documentary BBC2 2100 TONIGHT

Post by AMP »

The 'Babes in the Wood' is a notorious case from 1970 involving a particularly vile low life, Ronald Jebson.

Watching a BBC documentary on the case many years ago revealed that paedophiles in prison like to share their experiences and derive great amusement from it.

There have been others, but without the internet we would never have become aware of the scale of the problem.

And it has facilitated independent corroboration and revealed the level of individual offending which wasn't possible back then.

Institutions have been forced to reform and take action.

The Church can no longer knowingly ordain convicted paedophiles.

Without the internet, nothing would have changed.
Last edited by AMP on Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bishop Ball documentary BBC2 2100 TONIGHT

Post by AMP »

Still trying to cover up even during the independent investigation!!

This from a BBC report in 2011:

Letters from 1966 between the then Archbishop of Canterbury and a bishop show the Church agreed that a convicted paedophile should be ordained.

The correspondence has emerged in a report into the Church's failure to support victims of Roy Cotton that was published online and then removed.

The Meekings Report was published online on Wednesday and then taken down. At the same time, another report was released by Baroness Butler-Sloss.

A spokeswoman for the Diocese of Chichester told the BBC the Meekings Report was removed because the document had accidentally included some confidential information.

Both studies looked into the behaviour of Cotton and another paedophile priest, Colin Pritchard.

In a letter to the then Archbishop of Canterbury Michael Ramsey dated 13 May 1966, the Bishop of Portsmouth outlined Cotton's history, including a criminal offence in 1954, and his repeated requests to be considered for ordination.
It said: "At the time he protested his innocence, and he has done ever since, and in fact from that time has been teaching.
"Cotton is a man of considerable ability... and I cannot think that having been so free of any trouble for 12 years that there is a likelihood of there being any problem in the future."

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Re: Bishop Ball documentary BBC2 2100 TONIGHT

Post by sejintenej »

wurzel wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:43 pm
sejintenej wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:59 pm
wurzel wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:26 am

In the summer holidays of 88 i taught by step brother clutch control on a 125 motorcycle on the mile as i lived local and Peele gates were never locked
Totally off topic; my mother's employer (who later became my semi-adopted father) taught me to drive on private property from when I was about 11 and taught me to change gear without using the clutch - that is a form of double de-clutching. After that it got complicated - changing from 2 to 4 wheel drive and vice versa or changing to propeller drive in the water.
Amphicar?
That came in far later but the right idea. In fact an (ex) WWII American Army DUKW. It was the "small" version for 4 people; the bigger version can sometimes be seen carrying tourists around. Very reliable, easy to fix if there was a problem but a rust bucket.
We used it to carry produce across Salcombe estuary to the local greengrocer though it was seen at the start of the first Tall Ships Race from Dartmouth.

Incidentally when the Americans went home they buried a lot of stuff including two caches of small arms that I know of in a beach in Devon. I assume that they are thoroughly rusted by now though we did use some phosphorus (? grenades) to light fires of rubbish back in the 1940's
The Department of Health is looking to hire couples married seven years or more to educate people on social distancing.

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