prison releases

This section was setup in August 2018 in order to move the existing related discussions from other sections into this new section to group them together, and separate from the other CH-related topics.

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LHA
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prison releases

Post by LHA »

Has anyone been keeping up with any of the offenders (Webb, Burr) and if they have been released from Prison

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Re: prison releases

Post by AMP »

PEDs according to my calculations:

These assume release at half way point if no prison infractions and then under supervision for the remainder of the sentence.

Burr is different as he is serving an "extended" sentence because he is still considered a danger to children. Two thirds.

Also If other victims come forward and corroborate the most serious allegation which remains on file and for which he has never been prosecuted, then if convicted he is looking at a whole lot more time.

In order of when they will next enjoy a nice pint of Freedom Ale:

Webb: September 2020
Martin: July 2021
Burr: May 2022
Karim: April 2023
Dobbie: July 2024

And a long way behind for his next G&T:

Husband: December 2026

Fyi
Gary Glitter: February 2023
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J.R.
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Re: prison releases

Post by J.R. »

All way far too soon in my book !

Richard B
would be the one to keep a check on the release date situation.
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

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Re: prison releases

Post by richardb »

My recollection is that they were all (save Burr) given standard determinate sentences which means that they will be automatically released at the halfway point. In theory they are eligible to be released on Home Detention Curfew (tag) four and a half months before the halfway point but in practice sex offenders never are. They then remain on licence for the rest of the sentence - ie the other half - and are at risk of being recalled to prison at the behest of the probation service if they don't behave. Recall can either be for 28 days or until the sentence end date subject to review by the Parole Board.

Burr is in a different position. He was given an extended sentence as he is assessed as posing a significant risk of causing serious harm by further (sexual) offences. It means he is not automatically released early. Instead he has to wait until the two thirds point of his sentence when he can apply for parole. If the Parole Board considers him safe to be released, then he gets out. Otherwise he has to wait for his next parole date and may end up serving the whole of his sentence. Once released Burr remains on licence not just until his sentence end date but also for the extra period by which his licence has been extended (the extension period).

So Burr release date as set out may need revising if he doesn't get through the Parole Board.

I hope that this helps.
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LHA
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Re: prison releases

Post by LHA »

Burr is the only offender who had a local press who covered his conviction by speaking to those who knew him, and publicising the conviction in his home town.

Karim bizarrely had a number of defenders in what I can only describe as the 'elite squash club' fraternity.

Webb and Dobbie both lived in France prior, they will need Probation permission to return there whilst on license.

Whilst the CH offenders lack the notoriety of someone like Karen Matthews it would be interesting to see ethical coverage of their post release whereabouts, lifestyles and comings and goings. Maybe eagle eyed Old Blues could keep their eyes open, their camera phones to the ready and keep the forum in the loop!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/f ... s-21413513

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Re: prison releases

Post by sejintenej »

LHA wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:46 pm

Webb and Dobbie both lived in France prior, they will need Probation permission to return there whilst on license.
The French immigration would be within their rights to prevent either or both entering France from any country (including another EU nation) and if they do get in then the local Mairie are pretty powerful about people living in their area. I had to undergo a 30 minute interview with the "patron" of my hamlet before moving in and the patron of a hamlet can report to the mayor of the commune if he has any doubts.

You may remember the shootings in Oslo some years ago; the man's father had to move quickly from near us in France even though he had had no contact with his son.
The Department of Health is looking to hire couples married seven years or more to educate people on social distancing.

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Re: prison releases

Post by AMP »

sejintenej wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:31 pm
LHA wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:46 pm

Webb and Dobbie both lived in France prior, they will need Probation permission to return there whilst on license.
The French immigration would be within their rights to prevent either or both entering France from any country (including another EU nation) and if they do get in then the local Mairie are pretty powerful about people living in their area. I had to undergo a 30 minute interview with the "patron" of my hamlet before moving in and the patron of a hamlet can report to the mayor of the commune if he has any doubts.

You may remember the shootings in Oslo some years ago; the man's father had to move quickly from near us in France even though he had had no contact with his son.
What had you been convicted of, if you don't mind me asking?

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Re: prison releases

Post by sejintenej »

AMP wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:34 pm
sejintenej wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:31 pm
LHA wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:46 pm

Webb and Dobbie both lived in France prior, they will need Probation permission to return there whilst on license.
The French immigration would be within their rights to prevent either or both entering France from any country (including another EU nation) and if they do get in then the local Mairie are pretty powerful about people living in their area. I had to undergo a 30 minute interview with the "patron" of my hamlet before moving in and the patron of a hamlet can report to the mayor of the commune if he has any doubts.

You may remember the shootings in Oslo some years ago; the man's father had to move quickly from near us in France even though he had had no contact with his son.
What had you been convicted of, if you don't mind me asking?
??????? 76 years of undiscovered whatever, never even taken to the coppery against my will nor even questioned! As for Anders Breivik, wrong side of the country, my moniker is primarily Swedish og jeg er ikke nordmann If you are referring to the interview it was just to see if I was going to be an acceptable neighbour (I was appointed "patron" 15 years later when Pierre moved)
The Department of Health is looking to hire couples married seven years or more to educate people on social distancing.

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Re: prison releases

Post by AMP »

sejintenej wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:07 pm
AMP wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:34 pm
sejintenej wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:31 pm


The French immigration would be within their rights to prevent either or both entering France from any country (including another EU nation) and if they do get in then the local Mairie are pretty powerful about people living in their area. I had to undergo a 30 minute interview with the "patron" of my hamlet before moving in and the patron of a hamlet can report to the mayor of the commune if he has any doubts.

You may remember the shootings in Oslo some years ago; the man's father had to move quickly from near us in France even though he had had no contact with his son.
What had you been convicted of, if you don't mind me asking?
??????? 76 years of undiscovered whatever, never even taken to the coppery against my will nor even questioned! As for Anders Breivik, wrong side of the country, my moniker is primarily Swedish og jeg er ikke nordmann If you are referring to the interview it was just to see if I was going to be an acceptable neighbour (I was appointed "patron" 15 years later when Pierre moved)
Just checking, anyway, getting back to your friend Breivik Senior:

I was in Oslo that fateful afternoon providing IT consultancy to Norges (the Norwegian Central Bank)

I had been going out there for several weeks to assist them with the trading platform they use to manage the state pension fund, which is the largest sovereign wealth fund in the world.

Being a Friday, I left early and was on a train to the airport by the time it kicked off and the City went into lock down.

For anyone who has never been, it doesn't feel like a City. It is very small with a suburban village feel.

A shocking and quite unbelievable event.

And the norwegians are such lovely people.

I used to occasionally lunch with the project manager, a large rotund gentleman with a handlebar moustache called Sven.

He used to tell me about his time doing National Service in 1970, when his primary responsibility as a border guard was to be on the lookout for advancing russians.

In the winter months I used to stay in The Grand because it was within budget and so I got to know the staff.

Obama had stayed the previous month to collect his Nobel Peace Price and during dinner, the waiter approached his table with the wine. He said he was almost rugby tackled to the ground by his secret service detail. You can't get within twelve feet of the man.

Another guest on one occasion was Madonna,who like everyone else, just helped herself to breakfast from the buffet.

Otter
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Re: prison releases

Post by Otter »

When I worked for the Probation Service I came face to face with people like the CH convicts. I know Richard has mentioned this before, and I can only reiterate for reassurance, that convicted sex offenders are among the most heavily monitored and surveilled offenders of all. And on a scale ranging from viewing illegal online images to sexual assault and rape of minors in loco parentis, the CH lot are pretty near to the top so you can be sure they will be watched like hawks by their local police force's Public Protection Unit (PPU).

They will have a number of life-restricting conditions on them for the remainder of their licence and possibly after, sometimes for life. They will all have been given SHPOs (Sexual Harm Prevention Orders). They will never again be permitted to be involved in any paid or voluntary activities involving minors (it is a criminal offence for them even to apply to such a role). They will be subject to random, unannounced home visits where the police/probation can look at will through their homes and possessions and ask them about their sex lives. Many SHPOs allow the police to monitor Internet usage, or ban the offender from deleting browsing history. They may be required to inform police of any intimate relationships they enter into, and the police will usually compel them to disclose everything to their partner. They will be strictly forbidden from contacting their victims. If they stay somewhere overnight with an under-18 present, they will as a minimum have to inform the child's parent/guardian, or they may simply be forbidden from staying there at all.

They will also be on the Sex Offenders' Register. They will have to inform the police if they:
- wish to undertake any foreign travel (almost impossible on licence, and post-transition period, foreign travel will be all but impossible for them)
- stay at a UK address (other than their home address) for more than 7 days in a 12-month period
- change their name
- get a new passport, of any nationality
- move address or get a second home
- get any new identifying marks, such as tattoos, piercings or surgical scars
- change vehicle (or get an additional vehicle), or change the number plate on their vehicle, or the colour of their vehicle
- change bank cards or account numbers
They also have to do an annual registration, even if none of the above details change.

Breach any of the above, then if still on licence they will be returned to prison, and whether on licence or not, they face a separate conviction and imprisonment of up to 5 years.

Due to the length of their sentences, the law requires that they are all registered sex offenders for life, though they can appeal to come off the SOR after 15 years.

For sex offenders, release from prison is not freedom - it's the start of the real punishment and daily fear.
Last edited by Otter on Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: prison releases

Post by marty »

Otter wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:12 am
For sex offenders, release from prison is not freedom - it's the start of the real punishment and daily fear.
Good.
My therapist says I have a preoccupation with vengeance. We’ll see about that.

AMP
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Re: prison releases

Post by AMP »

In some cases they can be offered a tag and released earlier than normal.

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Re: prison releases

Post by AMP »

Otter wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:12 am
When I worked for the Probation Service I came face to face with people like the CH convicts. I know Richard has mentioned this before, and I can only reiterate for reassurance, that convicted sex offenders are among the most heavily monitored and surveilled offenders of all. And on a scale ranging from viewing illegal online images to sexual assault and rape of minors in loco parentis, the CH lot are pretty near to the top so you can be sure they will be watched like hawks by their local police force's Public Protection Unit (PPU).

They will have a number of life-restricting conditions on them for the remainder of their licence and possibly after, sometimes for life. They will all have been given SHPOs (Sexual Harm Prevention Orders). They will never again be permitted to be involved in any paid or voluntary activities involving minors (it is a criminal offence for them even to apply to such a role). They will be subject to random, unannounced home visits where the police/probation can look at will through their homes and possessions and ask them about their sex lives. Many SHPOs allow the police to monitor Internet usage, or ban the offender from deleting browsing history. They may be required to inform police of any intimate relationships they enter into, and the police will usually compel them to disclose everything to their partner. They will be strictly forbidden from contacting their victims. If they stay somewhere overnight with an under-18 present, they will as a minimum have to inform the child's parent/guardian, or they may simply be forbidden from staying there at all.

They will also be on the Sex Offenders' Register. They will have to inform the police if they:
- wish to undertake any foreign travel (almost impossible on licence, and post-transition period, foreign travel will be all but impossible for them)
- stay at a UK address (other than their home address) for more than 7 days in a 12-month period
- change their name
- get a new passport, of any nationality
- move address or get a second home
- get any new identifying marks, such as tattoos, piercings or surgical scars
- change vehicle (or get an additional vehicle), or change the number plate on their vehicle, or the colour of their vehicle
- change bank cards or account numbers
They also have to do an annual registration, even if none of the above details change.

Breach any of the above, then if still on licence they will be returned to prison, and whether on licence or not, they face a separate conviction and imprisonment of up to 5 years.

Due to the length of their sentences, the law requires that they are all registered sex offenders for life, though they can appeal to come off the SOR after 15 years.

For sex offenders, release from prison is not freedom - it's the start of the real punishment and daily fear.
They should take note of this model in the US where a sign post has to go up outside the residence of any convicted sex offender.

This inevitably creates ghettos and makes it easier for them to carry on offending, undetected.
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Re: prison releases

Post by richardb »

AMP wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:24 pm
In some cases they can be offered a tag and released earlier than normal.
Sex offenders are one category (violent offenders being the other) who are unlikely to be tagged.

It should also be said that although they are not admissible in evidence in court proceedings, lie detectors are used in some areas with sex offenders.
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Re: prison releases

Post by AMP »

I don't think prisoners should be tagged, they should serve their time.

It's not a punishment

And if the prisons are too full, then sentence them to less time.

But let's not pretend that justice is served or we are being tough on crime by tagging them.

I understand it provides flexibility, incentivises good behaviour, reduces the prison bill - but that is an endightment of the system.

And if they are so dangerous they need to be monitored, then don't release them.

We know from Mr Harvey Weinstein that they are unreliable. He DID NOT remove his tag. Unfortunately the battery died.
Last edited by AMP on Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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