YELLOWS AND PINKS

[Foureyes]

As some of you know, I am trying to prepare a written and photographic record of Hertford dresses before they are forgotten. I am concentrating on the formal dress only - it would be too complicated to go into any greater detail!
I am confused on two specific items and would welcome some help, please.

1. YELLOW DRESS. This appears to have taken over from the very elegant and much admired coatfrock in about 1953-4. Can anyone help with further information and, if possible, photographs, please?

2. PINK BLAZER. This appears to have come into use at some time in the mid/late 70s, and there is one photo on this site of two girls wearing it. Why pink, when C.H. traditional colours have always been blue and yellow?

Specifically, in both cases, I would like to know: when were these two items introduced, why, on what occasions were they worn, and when did they go out of use?

Any help will be greatly appreciated,

[Angela Woodford]

Hello Foureyes!

The hideous yellow dress was before my time, but I certainly do remember the Cherry Reds, as we called them. I have a kind of memory that they were designed to fit every size by our Needlework Mistress Miss Richards (say that name and shudder; known on the Forum as SWSNBN) and quite right! What a weird colour to choose. Cherry Reds were Sunday Uniform, worn with a medium blue chunky sack dress, blue and white spotted or striped blouse, black slip-on shoes with a frilly bit on top and ??? white ankle socks. I'm guessing they were introduced in 1971, my last year.

I don't remember wearing a cherry red any other day - we didn't have many special occasions, but there may have been! (I think I remember St Matthew's Day in greys and the red/blue tartan blouse?) It seems a bit of an extravagance having such a complicated Sunday Uniform to me. The cherry red ensemble may have been a bit weird, but was made from excellent good quality fabrics.

In her autobiography, DR states that she got tired looking at blue all the time. Perhaps this is why the cherry red was brought in. If only we'd had a Headmistress with taste and style and a love for the traditional CH uniform! The girls today look fantastic!

[Katharine]

I think that the yellow dresses came in for the Quartercentenary. There are several photos from that year - one on the steps of St Paul's or Westminster Abbey waiting to present the Loyal Address to the new Queen, another of girls taking part in a march past at Horsham. Sorry, just popping in before work and can't get at my books, will do so tonight if you need references.

The yellow dresses were made of linen and attracted greenfly, which was one reason why we disliked them. They did NOT replace the coatfrock, they were summer dresses with short sleeves, and only worn during the summer term. I think both went at the same time when the grey pinafores came in in about 1965. The pinafores were Sunday best when they came in and were worn all year with different blouses, later they became everyday wear.

[midget]

The yellow dresses definitely came in during the 1952/53 year, presumably during the summer 1953. I have a recollection of DR announcing this during end of term markreading in 1952. Everyone was horrified, even those who were leaving and wouldn't have to wear them. I have afeeling that yellow was not a fashionable colour at the time, and that was the reason for choosing it. ( Allowed skirt length always seemed to be in inverse proportion to the fashionable length). There was no mention of coat frocks then, so DR must have intended to keep them.

[Angela Woodford]

I imagine these yellow dresses to have been a Colman's-mustardy colour. How awful. How unflattering - unless you're a greenfly? I arrived in 1964, and never saw one.

So, if ditched in , say, 1962, that was ten years of mustardhood!

[Katharine]

In Summer 64 I was taken to Chelsea Flower Show by DR with the Head Girl. As we had tea there she mused that in our new grey pinafores we didn't look as if we were in uniform at all, and could possibly be taken for her daughters or nieces. It was very difficult to keep a straight face! For her to say that, the grey dresses must have been very new then, they may have come in that term, I can't remember.

[Foureyes]

I am most grateful for these very helpful and informative replies. I don't want to go into too much detail in what was clearly a very complicated area, but would anyone disagree with this summary:
--------------------------------------------
"During the post-war period the girls’ formal outfits changed several times. The main designs were:
1. Coatfrock. Introduced in late 1940s. Blue with yellow piping, it was elegant and popular. Worn to about 1962.
2. Yellow dress. Formal summer uniform, introduced in 1952 and worn until about 1962. Made of a mustard-yellow linen it was deeply unpopular among the girls and reputed to attract greenfly.
3. Grey pinafores. Introduced in 1962 as Sunday best, to replace both coatfrock and yellow dress. Later became everyday wear. Worn all the year round with different blouses according to season.
4. Cherry red blazer. Introduced 1971 as Sunday Uniform. Worn with a medium blue chunky sack dress, blue and white spotted or striped blouse, black slip-on shoes and white ankle socks."
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A. Can anyone add anything about hats, please? I have seen somewhere that there were varying numbers of bands on the ribbon to indicate status; i.e., monitors, and so on. What was the correct name for the style?
B. I have seen the picture of the C.H. group on the steps of St Paul's in 1952/53. Because it is a black-and-white pic I had guessed that the Senior Girls's dress was either grey or light blue. So, thanks Katherine for corecting me on that.

[icomefromalanddownunder]

I am most grateful for these very helpful and informative replies. I don't want to go into too much detail in what was clearly a very complicated area, but would anyone disagree with this summary:

4. Cherry red blazer. Introduced 1971 as Sunday Uniform. Worn with a medium blue chunky sack dress, blue and white spotted or striped blouse, black slip-on shoes and white ankle socks."


I think that I had a red blazer, in which case they were introduced before 1971, as I left at the end of summer term 1970.----------

---------------------------------
A. Can anyone add anything about hats, please? I have seen somewhere that there were varying numbers of bands on the ribbon to indicate status; i.e., monitors, and so on. What was the correct name for the style?


Between 1965 and 1970 we had chapel caps for everyday wear, panamas for summer sundays and velours for winter sundays. Colour photographs available on request.

:

[englishangel]

I think Angela has blanked out a particularly nasty memory. Between 1962 and 1969 on Sunday, with the grey button front pinafores the lower forms (up to Lower Vth/Fourth form) wore grey nylon ankle socks, with the black slip-on shoes. The only white socks the whole school wore were cotton sports socks which were phased out around 1966 when we got nylon socks for games in house colours.

[Angela Woodford]

This is absolutely right! I woke in the night thinking "Sunday socks!" And in my dream, I am there in the Wardrobe Room fossicking in one of the big cupboards for my Sunday Shoes box and putting the black shoes on over dreary grey socks. Funny that... I just knew when I was typing "white socks" that that just wasn't right...

Didn't Katharine once write that, although the coatfrocks were rather smart - they had that Twenties unwaisted rather appealing vintage fashion look - they had a white collar which had to be laundered separately, then stitched back onto the main garment by the wearer, with immaculate points to the collar?

Hat bands? Maybe I remember Kerren writing something about an extra status band to the hat band on the Panama? I don't remember this '64-'71.

Goodness, it's exciting that a proper historian is recording our uniform! Bags I a copy! And I haven't said "Bags I" for a very long time.

I feel strangely sure that the greys were designed by SWSNBN herself!

Plus... all the Sunday blouses were protected from perspiration by sewing in axillary rubber-coated-in-cotton "dress liners". The sets of Sunday blouses were worn week after week for a term without laundering. Dress liners! I rather think that the wearer had to remove the dress liner, pre-laundering, before the end of Term?

There was an amendment to Sixth Form everyday uniform (guesses) around 1969? The V1 Form, instead of a fullish frumpy blue summer skirt, were issued with a lined V-necked linen-look blue sack dress worn over a stripy blouse. It wasn't anything like as bulky as the Sunday Sack. It was a nice shade of blue which suited most people. I quite liked this dress. By the time I got to the V1 Form, we could wear it with self provided tights, or if broke, the usual fawn socks with our Clarks flattie sandals. I believe that Miss Jukes and Miss Wilson were particularly vigilant in naming and shaming any V1 Former with laddered tights. Slatterns!

(I can see myself buying replacement tights now, in Gravesons, Pretty Polly "Romany" brand, picture on package of girl with Venetian Pageboy haircut... just how I wanted to look... in my dreams!)

[Fjgrogan]

On the subject of hats - chapel caps were everyday wear throughout my time (1956-62) and later, but only outside the school grounds or in chapel. Panamas for summer and velours for winter were both upgraded while I was there and the new designs were smaller and smarter. I do vaguely remember hatbands having an extra stripe for status, presumably for monitresses - I'm not sure because I never reached that lofty height, leaving in the Lower VIth. The other main changes I remember were that instead of the whole school wearing navy blue tunics, the sixth form were issued with pleated navy blue skirts and a slightly different blouse; also instead of ties in house colours they had a special tie in navy and gold which was the same throughout the sixth form - no house distinction. Also underwear and nightwear was upgraded. When I started nighties were stiff white calico - they almost stood up on their own! - as were knicker linings; the latter were replaced by aertex, and the former by flowered winceyette(?) in various pastel shades. The other big change was that we received Harris tweed overcoats for Sunday wear - these were rather smart, and classic in design - no belts - so I imagine would have been quite acceptable as 'normal' wear outside school for some years - well, I liked them anyway, but I am hardly a fashion guru!

[Katharine]

"During the post-war period the girls’ formal outfits changed several times. The main designs were:
1. Coatfrock. Introduced in late 1940s. Blue with yellow piping, it was elegant and popular. Worn to about 1962.
I had the impression that these came in earlier than the late 40s, I didn't think any Post War changes were made until the yellow dresses. They had a cream coloured collar, which had to be replaced several times a term for laundry, a definite skill!
2. Yellow dress. Formal summer uniform, introduced in 1952 and worn until about 1962. Made of a mustard-yellow linen it was deeply unpopular among the girls and reputed to attract greenfly.
3. Grey pinafores. Introduced in 1962 as Sunday best, to replace both coatfrock and yellow dress. Later became everyday wear. Worn all the year round with different blouses according to season.
4. Cherry red blazer. Introduced 1971 as Sunday Uniform. Worn with a medium blue chunky sack dress, blue and white spotted or striped blouse, black slip-on shoes and white ankle socks."
-------------------------------------------
A. Can anyone add anything about hats, please? I have seen somewhere that there were varying numbers of bands on the ribbon to indicate status; i.e., monitors, and so on. What was the correct name for the style?
Summer hats were panamas, Winter hats were navy velours both of these changed style in 1959/60. Until then they had a fairly wide brim and had a wide navy hatband with two yellow stripes and a school crest. Monitresses had a third stripe. The new hats had a much narrow brim and hat band with just the crest for everyone. Was the ribbon navy and yellow? Mary likes hats, she should know! Midget can also confirm about the bands on the older hats I just remember the Mons complaining that just as they reached that status it disappeared!
B. I have seen the picture of the C.H. group on the steps of St Paul's in 1952/53. Because it is a black-and-white pic I had guessed that the Senior Girls's dress was either grey or light blue. So, thanks Katherine for corecting me on that.

[Angela Woodford]

I think that I had a red blazer, in which case they were introduced before 1971, as I left at the end of summer term 1970.

The girl who might be able to confirm this is Jo, who I think was assimilated in 1970 -Jo? - and I will cautiously post a HOGOF message. I say "cautious" because I remember the cherry red has some particularly unappealing memory for her? Still in the interests of historical research?

[mvgrogan]

as a younger "old" girl I'm not in a position to comment on most of this but...

The greys were winter uniform in my time and we had cotton dresses for the summer. The dresses were in various colours and (I think) striped. Pic below - taken in Summer 1983, at the end of term I think; Lizzie & Tanya were leaving, you can see the variety of coloured dresses in the background.

Re; Hats - we had no hats... BUT I now own a velour hat like the one mum mentioned above - it's in Hanna's dressing up box! I think we got 2 of them when the school closed. I wish I'd grabbed a grey, too - really comfy and almost flattering!

[midget]

I agree with Katharine that coatfrocks were worn before the late 1940s. They were firmly established when I arrived in 1944.
Mons had a third band on both velours and panamas.