Parental Contribution

[ailurophile]

I'm sure this isn't the case at CH, or hasn't been till now, but I do know from friends applying for bursaries at other independents this year that other schools expect you to use savings and release as much equity as you can (including downsizing housing if necessary) to pay fees before they will start helping with bursaries. One friend actually gave up a partial scholarship place for her child at a top school because they told her she needed to either remortgage or downsize (which would have covered the first two years' fees), and when that was used up she'd be eligible for bursary assistance - she just couldn't take the risk that the bursary would be either forthcoming or enough if it was awarded. The difference there though was that the school had a very limited number of bursary places on offer.

Thanks for this, Antinous1 ... I was thinking just the other day that I could do with a few more things to worry about!

[YadaYada]

Milletts have some excellent deals on tents at the moment.....who needs a house?!

[lonelymom]

But how would remortgaging work exactly? I mean say, for example, someone has a house worth £250,000 with an outstanding mortgage of £70,000, that would mean they have equity of £180,000 because the house has doubled in value since they bought it or something (lucky sods!) So, a school might want them to remortgage to release some of that £180,000. But, if they are only earning £25,000 and therefore can only get a maximum mortgage of approximately £75,000, how can they remortgage to release the money? Am I missing something?

[Atticus]

I have sent in our financial declaration today -not done earlier due to a massive family crisis. Using the rr, and requesting a figure from admissions looked as though we would be able to manage, but now I am worried!
We are in a similar position to tulip - we need to use our savings to adapt our house for ds1, cannot downsize nor remortgage.

As an aside, My beloved cat Atticus of 17 years died this week. The house is too, too quiet

[englishangel]

Oh Atticus, how sad.

You might want to look at this thread, pet lovers of the forum united.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1787

[ailurophile]

But how would remortgaging work exactly? I mean say, for example, someone has a house worth £250,000 with an outstanding mortgage of £70,000, that would mean they have equity of £180,000 because the house has doubled in value since they bought it or something (lucky sods!) So, a school might want them to remortgage to release some of that £180,000. But, if they are only earning £25,000 and therefore can only get a maximum mortgage of approximately £75,000, how can they remortgage to release the money? Am I missing something?

Lonelymom, I don't know much about these things but I think that you might be able to raise a mortgage against the security of equity in your property, rather than against your earnings. Of course, because equity isn't real money, there's a much higher risk of your not being able to pay it back - at which point your house would revert to the mortgage lender. TBH, as someone who's never had a credit card and budgets carefully to live wthin my means, the very thought of being expected to borrow against 'money' I don't really have in order to pay even higher school fees which I can't afford makes my blood run cold.

Isn't this the sort of thing which got the economy into such a godawful mess in the first place?!!


Atticus I'm really sorry to hear about your cat, I know just how it feels. We lost our 20 year-old tom nearly three years ago now, and I still miss him dreadfully. (I still find the odd bit of cat hair around the house too, which speaks volumes for my housekeeping standards!)

[Jo]

I have sent in our financial declaration today -not done earlier due to a massive family crisis. Using the rr, and requesting a figure from admissions looked as though we would be able to manage, but now I am worried!
We are in a similar position to tulip - we need to use our savings to adapt our house for ds1, cannot downsize nor remortgage.

As an aside, My beloved cat Atticus of 17 years died this week. The house is too, too quiet

I'm so sorry to hear about your cat

[Atticus]

Thankyou for your thoughts - he was a beautiful Maine Coon boy, with the most gentle nature. I like the thought if him living on through my name on here (and discovering the odd hairs..)
thank you !

[ailurophile]

I like the thought if him living on through my name on here

It's a lovely name; did you name him after Atticus Finch in 'To Kill a Mockingbird' by any chance?

There's a tradition in my family of naming our children and pets after literary figures; my own real name is from my mum's childhood heroine, and my sister has a son named after a Thomas Hardy hero and a dog named after a Dickens character. I did briefly toy with the idea of naming my first son from my favouite book, but it happens to be 'Pride and Prejudice' and I simply couldn't bring myself to saddle the poor child with 'Fitzwilliam'!! (No offence to any Fitzwilliams out there...).

[englishangel]

I like the thought if him living on through my name on here

It's a lovely name; did you name him after Atticus Finch in 'To Kill a Mockingbird' by any chance?

There's a tradition in my family of naming our children and pets after literary figures; my own real name is from my mum's childhood heroine, and my sister has a son named after a Thomas Hardy hero and a dog named after a Dickens character. I did briefly toy with the idea of naming my first son from my favouite book, but it happens to be 'Pride and Prejudice' and I simply couldn't bring myself to saddle the poor child with 'Fitzwilliam'!! (No offence to any Fitzwilliams out there...).

From Little Women perchance?

I loved that too, and "What Katie Did!"

[dinahcat]

Quite good for us to have stayed on topic for so long! 'Names' is a good idea for a thread in the non CH bit but if you click on the heading Parental Contributions you would wonder what had happened by now.
I've had a look at the CH website and it is not in any way like the website six years ago. The emphasis seems to have moved to that similar to any other independent with regard to fees . I never had to pay a deposit six years ago , for example . Also the ready reckoner has gone and you are advised of the full cost of a CH education in every permutation.The problem seems to be emerging as something like ,the school is advertising itself as very reasonable priced to all parents taking children from 'all walks of life' . Parents are seeing this as meaning that everyone will be able to afford it.This is wishful thinking .The only things that seem to be offset against the fees are your mortgage or rent up to 12% of your wages( I wish-who has a mortgage like that?) water rates, childcare , buildings insurance and council tax. There is also an allowance of £500 for another child at home.I don't know if disabled dependents also are allowed an allowance . Apart from that, what is left is seen as disposable income. I have no idea how the Foundation calculates how much you are allowed to live on after the fees are deducted. That seems to be the problem - it's all a bit secret.

[CHDad]

I guess the recession is really hitting C.H hard now and they are just not getting an adequate return on their investments. If they don't do something to bring in extra revenue the fund will very quickly diminish. I can understand why they are having to make really tough decisions to secure the future of the school, however as you say Dinachat, it all seems a bit secret. They must use a "system" to decide upon the amount of bursary offered, why can't the basis for this calculation be published?

Parents really do need to know whether it is likely that they can afford to send their children to CH before they sit the exams. To put a child through all of the selection processes, raise their hopes and then dash them when the fees are unaffordable is not fair on the child (or the parents).

[ailurophile]

Quite good for us to have stayed on topic for so long! 'Names' is a good idea for a thread in the non CH bit but if you click on the heading Parental Contributions you would wonder what had happened by now.
I've had a look at the CH website and it is not in any way like the website six years ago. The emphasis seems to have moved to that similar to any other independent with regard to fees . I never had to pay a deposit six years ago , for example . Also the ready reckoner has gone and you are advised of the full cost of a CH education in every permutation.The problem seems to be emerging as something like ,the school is advertising itself as very reasonable priced to all parents taking children from 'all walks of life' . Parents are seeing this as meaning that everyone will be able to afford it.This is wishful thinking .The only things that seem to be offset against the fees are your mortgage or rent up to 12% of your wages( I wish-who has a mortgage like that?) water rates, childcare , buildings insurance and council tax. There is also an allowance of £500 for another child at home.I don't know if disabled dependents also are allowed an allowance . Apart from that, what is left is seen as disposable income. I have no idea how the Foundation calculates how much you are allowed to live on after the fees are deducted. That seems to be the problem - it's all a bit secret.

Point well made Dinahcat, we should stick to this important topic! (But yes, Englishangel, I am named after Jo March!!)

You are quite right, the emphasis on the CH website is changing more quickly than you can keep up with! I think I pointed out on here recently that if you click on 'How to apply' there is now no specific link to Foundation places. Also, virtually all reference to families in need has vanished, the focus now being on "high achievers from all walks of life". I suspect the cynical influence of a marketing professional in this - the idea of paying high fees to rub shoulders with the 'needy' might frighten off wealthy parents, whereas being educated with other 'high achievers' is a much more attractive proposition!!

For many families the idea that they will be able to afford a CH education is indeed wishful thinking. Unfortunately the school's marketing is disingenuous, and the Foundation's procedures are - as you put it Dinahcat - 'a bit secret'. The result of this is that some families are allowed to get a long way down the line before reality, and its consequent heartbreak, kicks in.

The issue of a dependent's allowance is a case in point. When we were forced to withdraw our first son from CH at the end of his GE, we believed that this £500 allowance would be deducted from the fees payable for our second son. In fact, this sum was deducted from our gross income, and made very little actual difference to the fees. And I can tell you now, it costs considerably more than £500 per year to feed/ clothe/ transport etc. a 17 year old!

The ludicrous unreality of 'allowing' an average family to spend a maximum of 12.5% of their gross income on rent or mortgage has been discussed previously on this Forum. But I have to say, after adhering to this fantasy figure for so many years, it would be very difficult for CH to now expect families to remortgage their home or release equity in the way that Antinous has suggested. Although I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them try!

[Atticus]

I have just had a look at the school site - weekly boarding is being introduced too!
Pinkhebe - have you heard anything yet?

For us the rr and figure from the school were nearly the same, but we really couldn't cope with even a relatively small increase. I hope I will hear before too long.

[Mid A 15]

I've read through this thread and have to say that this business of mortgaging the equity in a house, if that is indeed a correct interpretation of what may be required, is of concern for a number of reasons. The main two being firstly that house prices in the current market are at best stagnant and, in some places, falling so where will that leave any equity "borrowed" against when market forces erode it? Secondly it can be a specific mortgage condition that "this" (ie the first mortgage on a property) is the only mortgage you have. I can see a potential scenario whereby the thieving ********, that sometimes prefer to be known as insurers, refuse to pay out on mortgage life and protection policies (if needed) should such a condition be breached through people attempting to borrow against equity.

The Foundation, School or whoever is responsible for determination of fees should definitely be more transparent it would appear if the Ready Reckoner is as unreliable as posts on this thread suggest.