Inquest Verdict - legal query (not easy)

[Katharine]

As you know my nephew committed suicide at the beginning of July. We are slowly moving on. Last night when I was talking to my sister she said that the inquest will be next month. The police are going for an Open Verdict, the only suicide 'note' is a text message. They say that there is no proof that he sent it. Without a note, they say it could have been an accident. The witness was a fair distance away so they are more or less discounting his evidence it was deliberate.

We all know that it was a deliberate action, nothing else can explain it. Is there a legal reason whether the police would want Open Verdict? If so what do I say to my sister?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Angela Woodford]

Dear dear Katharine...

Was listening to the World Service in the night - there was a "text analyst" who worked for the police and other organisations who specialises in being able to identify the gender, mental state and probable age of the sender of text messages. The interviewer tested him on the air with various test text messages, and he was very accurate.

Just a thought.

Have been thinking of you and your family. Much love.

[Jo]

Oh Katharine, this must be prolonging things for you and your family, even though it is essential

I'm guessing the police just assume most people would prefer not to have a suicide verdict. It's probably a legacy of years ago when it might have affected place of burial, and would have had some stigma attached. Thank goodness we've moved on. However, I believe it still affects things like life insurance claims - might not be relevant in the case of such a young person, but as it might often be an issue for adults, maybe it's normal police practice to try and avoid it whenever possible.

[J.R.]

An 'Open' verdict would probably be far preferable, Katharine.

A verdict of 'Suicide' can have ramifications on such things as insurance policies and the like.

An 'Open' verdict can be re-investigated at any time which might be distressing but keeps your options 'open'.

[Katharine]

An 'Open' verdict would probably be far preferable, Katharine.

A verdict of 'Suicide' can have ramifications on such things as insurance policies and the like.

An 'Open' verdict can be re-investigated at any time which might be distressing but keeps your options 'open'.

Thank you for your replies - I was hoping you would come in JR. What are the possible ramifications? I would be very surprised if there was any life insurance. What I understood from Sis last night was that she felt a suicide verdict would give him the dignity (is that the correct word?) of making the decision rather than the thought he had gone doolally and had not wanted to die. I think she feels suicide would be, for her, the kinder verdict.


Angela, just yesterday I read in the Indie about text messaging, someone had been abducted and sent messages after that and they could prove by the txt mssges they had not been sent by her. I am not sure that it is important enough for her to fight for her chosen verdict as whatever it is, it won't bring him back!

[J.R.]

A 'suicide' verdict still has a slight stigma to it, even in these enlightened days. I appreciate there may not be any insurance policies involved, but a lot of insurance companies will not pay out on a suicide verdict.

[Sharpers]

Hello Katharine

I cannot add to what I said on the other forum but wanted to thank you for letting me know of this place. S x

[gma]

There is a school of thought currently doing the rounds that where young people are concerned they are very easily influenced, either by someone else or by an events or series of events within their peer group. Open verdicts are intended, as JR rightly says, to allow further investigation if something relevant turns up later or through another avenue. The specific events I'm thinking of are those recent in Wales and the case in the States where the mother of a peer was prosecuted for her part in campaign of bullying. I'm sure many of us would understand why your sister would prefer the one available verdict that provides the family with some closure and shows that, however anyone feels about his reasons, it is accepted that he had the right to choose this action. The desperately sad thing is that knowing him and how he would have felt has no influence and legal standing and ultimately takes away the family's right to closure. Even with a note, it is often not recorded as suicide as many forces still believe that the family feel more traumatised by the word than the action - as it was with the friends that I pm'd you about. The police felt that it might relieve some essence of the feelings of guilt or lost opportunities to prevent that are frequently felt by those left behind. I wish you and yours some semblance of peace in the coming months and, as others on this forum, am thinking of you .

[Katharine]

My sister has just phoned and we had a chat about this and she now seems 'happy' to accept an Open Verdict, as she says nothing will bring him back so why make a fuss. Apparently she does not have to go, and isn't intending going. I had offered to go to be with her, but she says no. She is writing a statement for the Coroner, that is all that is necessary. I said I had asked some of my Old Blue friends for advice, which amused her.

Thank you all for your help and understanding.

[J.R.]

Great news Katharine.

Must be the best option, but I didn't want to say so too forcibly before, as it seemed a bit over-bearing.

[Katharine]

Thanks John, we had no experience whatsoever in this kind of thing. It was good to hear from someone who had knowledge of it. Throughout the last 8 weeks I have been trying to support my sister as much as I can, she's my baby sister and it is not good to see her hurting so much. I know I can't stop the hurt, but when she was in some distress about this the other night I promised to look into it for her.

[CHAZ]

I did not want to open up old wounds but this is a topic which has come to light again in that Michael Portillo has made what looks like a wonderful, powerful film.

The link to the DT is here below.

Unfortunately won't be able to watch it as I dont get the BBC but it certainly gives insight into how to cope with the grief and not bottle up as was the case of the Findons.

(Hope all is well with you and your loved ones, Katherine.)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/ma ... ide131.xml

[J.R.]

It generally seems to be the case that people who take their lives are those you least suspect might !

I was talking to a friend in 'insurance' the other evening, and he informed me that as a general rule, insurance companies won't pay out any life insurance after a coroner passes a verdict of 'suicide', hence, an 'open' verdict is always better.

[Katharine]

Thanks for that link, Chaz, I'll tell my sister and my mother about it, but whether they will want to watch or not I don't know.

I have been a little worried about my sister recently, in her last few phone calls she has seemed 'brittle' in her seemingly forced cheerfulness. She had a good break in the Canaries, but as they had often visited en famille there were a few bad moments.

[englishangel]

I do feel for her, everyone else is getting on with their lives after 4 or 5 months, but all sorts of things come up, especially now with the first Christmas, New year, and possibly a birthday.