Confirmation

[J.R.]

I was confirmed at CH by the Bish of Chich, and I can't re-call a Confirmation Certificate either !

We must have been confirmed at about the same time. My recollection is of getting a small book, which I have just found, called "My Prayer Book - A - For Men and Boys" and inside is written my full name, with the text, Confirmed by the Bishop of Chichester on 10th March 1962

Then there are two Greek words, the last is probably Chisto, but the first seem to be UMETS.

Price of book 3/-


Any guesses?

I think I was confirmed in '62 also.

Didn't we have confirmation classes held by Rev Pullen in the HM's house ?

Jan seems to remember a small prayer book buried with my 'stuff'' in the loft, but I'm blowed if I can remember it !

(NO - I'm not going rooting around in the loft until the Christmas deccies have to come down again !)

[mvgrogan]

Hallelujah!

DIY Ecumenicals Rule!

I do have a problem with religion here in Finland. All children become members of the Lutheran Church when they are registered - unless you specify otherwise. This means that as soon as they are old enough they pay church tax. They are only permitted to attend services if they are a member and lots of them give up their membership simply to stop paying the tax - nothing to do with their faith!

My current problem is the baptism of the son & heir! When Hanna was baptised we asked Jarmo's nephew and his wife to be godparents... only to discover much later that neither of them believe in God and this was despite having their own son baptised! The system here means that children are expected to be "named" at about 3 months old...many people keep the name a secret until this ceremony. It could be a naming ceremony or a baptism, depending on the parents, I guess. Either way Godparents are appointed and their own faith/belief/religion seems to be irrelevant!

I can't get my head around this... Jarmo's nephew (and his wife) promised, as Godparents, to walk with Hanna in the faith of Christ... they lied... not the best example to set for her! She already has an "honorary auntie" because she was not prepared to make promises she wouldn't keep. In my books that makes her a much more ethical, moral and "christian" person than the others. This time round, I find myself asking Jarmo's relatives "do you believe in God?" and I can't accept the reply "I am a member of the church" because that just menas "I pay my taxes". One candidate has already admitted she's a church member but doesn't believe ...AARRGGHH!

I'm beginning to think Xander will end up with a Fairy Godmother (Atheist) and Honorary Auntie (same as Hanna's).

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

God-Parents ------- I am afraid, that very few understand the responsibility, which they undertake !

Since the abandonment of the Book of Common Prayer, I doubt if they read about a Life-long duty to preserve a child, in the Christian Faith --- (And it means ANGCLIANISM !!) similarly at Confirmation, there is no longer a requirement to have studied the Catechism (As I did at CH !) There have been Posts on this before ----you believe that your name is Norm -- From N or M -- the answer to the first question !

I have one Godson -- now over 40, in whom I have taken an intrest, since birth --- particularly his Rugby career !
But I regret to say not his religious persuasion. He gets a very good bottle of Wine for his birthday, but that's about it. and I am fond of his Wife and Children. --- none of this is in accordance with what I promised at his Christening, -- not even the Rugby !
MIA MAXIMA CULPA

[Fjgrogan]

I realise that the rules for Anglican baptism are as laid down in BCP. However the main reason for the existence of BCP was to show what we shouldn't believe - ie the 39 articles were principally a means of 'slagging off' the Catholics! I wonder what the rules are for RC baptism - I should know because that is where I was baptised myself, but I don't; my father was RC and decided that we would all be baptised initially and then left to make up our own minds when we were old enough to do so. I went to CofE Sunday school from the age of 3, and enjoyed it. I went to CH at 11, and soon afterwards we moved house and the nearest Sunday school was Methodist, so that is where my younger brother and sister went. At one stage the three of us were all attending different churches and my mother used to say that whichever of us got into heaven first should use their influence to get the others in! As was the norm in those days, when my parents married my mother, who was regarded as non-Catholic, had to promise that their children would be brought up as RC, a promise which they didn't keep, but we certainly all knew what Christianity was about, and I hope that we have passed that on to our chidren. Hence Maria's dilemma now with Xander's baptism. The Finnish side of his family who are nominally Lutheran, but have all opted out of paying church tax and never go to church, feel that they missed out on Hanna's baptism (anglican in Leicester, but with Finnish godparents by proxy), so Xander's should happen in Finland. I don't mind where it is as long as I am there, since I seem to be the only person on either side who is a regular churchgoer. Maria doesn't speak enough Finnish to be able to explain to her in-laws that she sees baptism, and particularly the role of godparents, as a commitment and not just a tradition. Strictly speaking it is not for me to say; it is something which Maria and her husband have to decide between them, preferably with as little dissention as possible. However, since Kirri is about to have her first baby, I feel it would be nice if they could both be baptised when everyone (except the Finns) is here at Christmas. It would also be nice to see all three of our grandchildren actually understanding what Christianity means. Hanna knows about Christmas and particularly angels, but Easter so far has more to do with the Easter bunny bringing chocolate eggs than anything else (and this year he also brought a baby brother!) - after all she is only three. Apart from the 'oddity' of everyone born in Finland being deemed to be a Lutheran unless they choose to opt out, we did have another surprise when they went to register Xander's birth - one of the questions on the form was 'what is his first language?' - long before he was able to speak any language! Prehaps they should delay registering him until he is able to speak!

[mvgrogan]

we did have another surprise when they went to register Xander's birth - one of the questions on the form was 'what is his first language?' - long before he was able to speak any language! Prehaps they should delay registering him until he is able to speak!

...and they wouldn't let me write "scribble"

I did ask and it means that if there are 3 or more children on his year at school whose first language is the same, then they are entitled to some lessons in that language!

[jhopgood]

my father was RC and decided that we would all be baptised initially and then left to make up our own minds when we were old enough to do so.

As was the norm in those days, when my parents married my mother, who was regarded as non-Catholic, had to promise that their children would be brought up as RC, a promise which they didn't keep,

I entirely agree with your father as that is what I did, christened CofE and they have both now been received into the Catholic Church, when over 20, so it was their concious decision.My wife still says we did it wrong, yet I claim that as far as she is concerned, she got the right result. She is now a strong practising RC of the "old" school.

We were married in a Catholic Church, but I can't remember having to make a promise. Mind you, despite the fact that the wedding took place in Eltham, SE9, we had an English priest, Father Smith, and a visiting Spanish Priest, so the formal bit was bilingual, and it might have slipped in without me noticing.

I was once asked to be a Godfather, but declined as I knew I would be leaving the UK and could not carry out what I considered were my duties. Bewilderment on the other side, but she eventually understood.

[Euterpe13]

we did have another surprise when they went to register Xander's birth - one of the questions on the form was 'what is his first language?' - long before he was able to speak any language! Prehaps they should delay registering him until he is able to speak!

...and they wouldn't let me write "scribble"

I did ask and it means that if there are 3 or more children on his year at school whose first language is the same, then they are entitled to some lessons in that language!

you therefore missed a wonderful opportunity to promote Ancient Saxon or indeed Samoan --- surely you could have found another couple of kids to make the quorum ?

[Fjgrogan]

I used to say that Hanna was bilingual - Finglish and Scribble -now she genuinely speaks both English and Finnish, knows which to use when and translates for the benefit of others (eg her mother and grandmother) without ever having been taught to do so. Combining assorted strands of Christianity will also no doubt come naturally to her - home-grown DIY Ecumenical!

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

Since, 33 years ago, I married a Baptist Missionary (As explained on another Thread !) I attended a Baptist Chapel, until I reverted to the Anglican Church, and now, regrettably, we worship in different Churches on Sunday.
We make a point of being together in either, or both, Churches at Easter and Christmas.



And I have to admire the fact that the misguided girl actually comes to listen to me preach --- but not often !------

[mvgrogan]

2nd generation!

I was once asked to be a Godfather, but declined as I knew I would be leaving the UK and could not carry out what I considered were my duties. Bewilderment on the other side, but she eventually understood.

I have three godchildren all in different countries! A toddler in Finland, a teenager in UK and a strapping great 36 year old soldier in Australia! I try to keep tabs on all of them but it is hard - the toddler's parents are the aforementioned nephew & wife; I can only contact the teenager via Facebook and the soldier (an OB incidentally!) is just so far away and busy! His sister is a good friend (another OB), so I do get regular updates on his life.

[Jo]

God-Parents ------- I am afraid, that very few understand the responsibility, which they undertake !

Since the abandonment of the Book of Common Prayer, I doubt if they read about a Life-long duty to preserve a child, in the Christian Faith --- (And it means ANGCLIANISM !!) similarly at Confirmation, there is no longer a requirement to have studied the Catechism (As I did at CH !) There have been Posts on this before ----you believe that your name is Norm -- From N or M -- the answer to the first question !

I have one Godson -- now over 40, in whom I have taken an intrest, since birth --- particularly his Rugby career !
But I regret to say not his religious persuasion. He gets a very good bottle of Wine for his birthday, but that's about it. and I am fond of his Wife and Children. --- none of this is in accordance with what I promised at his Christening, -- not even the Rugby !
MIA MAXIMA CULPA

Immodest though it may sound, I probably have a better understanding of, and more respect for, the responsibility of godparents than many godparents do. People have told me "it's the people who would look after children if anything happened to their parents". I've heard people saying that so-and-so couldn't be their bridesmaid so it would be nice to have her as a godmother instead. No idea what they're asking them to take on. It also baffles me how many non-religious people have their children baptised (including both my brothers).

I was asked, but declined, to be godmother to at least two of my nephews and nieces, as I felt I wasn't an appropriate person to take on that role (not being a Christian being a bit of a clue). The people who accepted the role just had fewer scruples than I did.

It also surprises me how few parents take on the role of godparents to their own children. I can't imagine why this is. My parents are my, and my brothers' godparents. They were the people best placed to see to it that we had a Christian upbringing (sadly for them they didn't make a great success of it, but they tried, and no-one else would have done any better!)

[MaryB]

[quote]I spoke to the local vicar, who suggested that I might like to sit in on confirmation classes that he was about to conduct, although he realised that I did not need to be re-confirmed. I agreed to do so, and subsequently my first Anglican communion took place with my daughter in the CH chapel at Hertford. However, before the vicar would give me communion in the local church here he made me go through a ceremony formally repudiating any allegiance that I might still feel to the church of Rome! At the time I thought it was just a whim of his, but later when I was working as parish administrator I discovered some cards with the words of that ceremony, so presumably it did have some official standing. I wish I had thought to keep one of the cards, which have since disappeared. I have never heard of such a ceremony before or since; in retrospect, and in the light of more recent moves towards church unity, I am horrified./quote]

I've found this thread belatedly. I was confirmed at Hertford in 1967, and did get both a certificate signed by the Bp of Hertford and as a copy of, yes, My Prayer Book B for Women and Girls. At one point before my ordination I couldn't find either of these but I was told that a letter from someone confirmed with me or there at the time would do - miraculously, both turned up before I needed to approach Trish.

"Common Worship: Christian Initiation" includes liturgy for "Reception into the Communion of the Church of England. It's about belonging and taking part, not repudiating anything.

The president extends his/her hands towards those who are to be
received and says
God of mercy and love,
by one Spirit we have all been baptized into one body
and made to drink of the one Spirit;
we thank you for the gifts you have given to these your servants
for the building up of the body of Christ.
Grant that they may continue in the life of the Spirit
and walk with us in the light and obedience of Christ.
By the same Spirit,
fill the whole Church with your overflowing love;
give us knowledge and discernment of your will,
and steadfastness in your service,
until we all come to the unity of the faith,
to the measure of the full stature of Christ,
through whom we make our prayer.
All Amen.
The president takes the hand of each person to be received, saying
N, we recognize you as a member of the one, holy, catholic and
apostolic Church;
and we receive you into the communion of the Church of England
in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
All Amen.

And very nice too!

[Fjgrogan]

Thank you for that, Mary. It sounds far more people-friendly than the ritual I went through, and far more in keeping with the current ethos of the church in general. However, I am not sure that I really see the need, then or now, for such a procedure - the very fact that it exists at all surely underlines that we have differences. As I said before, I feel that it is more important to celebrate our similarities - unity in diversity, rather than uniformity. What I said about different faiths, should apply equally to different denominations of Christianity - otherwise we are hardly doing a good PR job for belief in God. Too many people outside the church regard religion as the reason for a lot of the trouble in the world, wars etc - my husband frequently expresses that opinion - and unfortunately they are often right, because it is the fundamentalist, extremist, intolerant members of any faith that make the media headlines.

A young friend of mine, when being admitted to hospital was giving his details at reception and was asked his religion. He answered 'Christian', but the computer would not accept that; he had to be more specific.

[Angela Woodford]

In my nursing days, it was part of the admission process to register a new patient's religion in the appropriate box. This was the standard response

Me: ...and what would you like me to put down as your religion?

Patient: (twitching uncomfortably) Oh, nothing really; we're not interested in all that. You'd better put down C of E.

Then (much earlier student days) a patient had declared himself to be a Pagan. On night duty, we dreamed up an improbable "Ritual of Oneness with the Dawn Spirit of Earth-Spirits" and woke him at 4 am with a vial of rainwater, a knife, a sprig of willow and a small bowl of Significant Soil.

We did think of adding a bit of blood - plenty of it available -

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

This Thread is becomung fascinating !
I was interested to read the bit of Common Worshio --- although I take part in it on Sundays, and also on other occasions, I cannot say I know it thoroughly. Does Confirmation still involve the laying on of Hands, by the Bish.? Miss Watts, of Barnes, insisted that we all had a DOUBLE Hair Wash !
Our Rector has a printed Order of Service for each part of the Christian Year ---- Lent, Easter, Pentecost etc. and she announces "Please turn to page 3 when we will say the Collect together" ---- Much shuffling of instructions, but it does have the responses in bold print -- so there is very little mumbling in a Congrefation of about 100.
I also like the way in which she gives the Absolution and the Blessing in the PLURAL --- "Pardon US for all our sins"
and "May the blessing of God Almighty, Father Son and Holy Ghost remain with US, and those we love ---- etc.
She served in Africa, as a Missionary, and is very much involved in "Corfe Mullen Churches Together" Who march together in the Carnival Procession ! ---- Very Ecumenical !

She also gets me to Preach --- but I think that is to give her an Evening Off, some Sundays !!!-------