Did anyone see...

[Mid A 15]

This has developed into an interesting, thought provoking thread and "Munch's" comments, in her inimitable way, have definitely touched a chord with me.

As an impressionable 10 year old from a SE London working class background I can still vividly recall the shock mixed with pride and delight of my family when I actually passed the LCC exam and was accepted at CH.

I was continually told that I was going to one of the best schools in the country and that with an excellent education the sky was the limit for me. Everybody seemed to have heard of this wonderful school and had the perception that I must be some kind of genius to have succeeded in getting there!

In many ways that time between passing the exam and going to CH was the high point for my self confidence in life.

Once I got there I discovered that I was far from being any sort of genius and bumped along in the middle somewhere before scraping into the lowest form of the LE (fast or A stream for Hertford and youngsters) and struggled somewhere near the bottom. I eventually scraped together some unspectacular "O" levels and "A" levels and ended up at Thames Poly for my degree.

The contrast to the euphoria which greeted my passing the LCC exam for CH was stark. "He went to that wonderful school yet ended up at Thames Poly, what a waste!" was one comment I particularly recall.

I got a "Desmond" as they later became known and entered the world of work where again I have conspicuously failed to set the world alight although (touchwood) I've managed to remain employed although I'm not too sure how!

I feel a sense of failure and guilt in that I have spectacularly failed to fulfil the expectations that people had of me. It is NOT the fault of CH though but rather other peoples PERCEPTION of CH. There is a big difference!

At the risk of being branded sexist mens' "success" tend to be judged by what job they do and what they earn. That's basically it. The situation is not quite as clear cut for women since the role of parent comes into the equation far more than for men.

Please don't think that the doom and gloom posted above means I'm unhappy. Like JR my family takes and has taken priority over anything else and I wouldn't trade that for all the "success" and "status" you could offer me.

As I said above Munch touched a chord hence this post. I hope it hasn't been too long or boring.

[Katharine]

Kerren, Kerren! Know how I remember you? You were a supremely confident Senior, extremely efficient, always one of the good guys, and a sort of sporting goddess!

If you were really good at something at Hertford, it was your "brand", and you were recognised for it. Of course you never felt inferior to anyone. Goodness, the thought!

Munch, I know that you also remember me as one of those goddesses - but certainly not a sporting one! What you don't see was that I had a very narrow academic ability - I was quite literally bottom of the form at English (which may explain why I can't always explain myself properly on this Forum). I did feel inferior at school because I had no musical ability - I turned the pages for the pianist for the House Singing Competition for years. I also felt different as nobody else in 6s understood my love for Maths and I was more mocked in House than admired for it. I was not unhappy at school but neither was I ecstatically happy!

Yes I did get my place at Oxford, for which I am very grateful - and I can have no idea whether that would have happened had I gone to school elsewhere. It was there that I decided I wanted to work in and for the third world and I have been very happy in that since. Like JR we have a strong marriage, which has taken us around the world together.

I know that given a choice of where to donate money I would unhesitatingly choose CH over my Oxford College - which as one of the former ladies colleges is not one of the rich ones.

[Angela Woodford]

Munch, I know that you also remember me as one of those goddesses - but certainly not a sporting one! What you don't see was that I had a very narrow academic ability - I was quite literally bottom of the form at English (which may explain why I can't always explain myself properly on this Forum). I did feel inferior at school because I had no musical ability - I turned the pages for the pianist for the House Singing Competition for years. I also felt different as nobody else in 6s understood my love for Maths and I was more mocked in House than admired for it. I was not unhappy at school but neither was I ecstatically happy!

Oxford... It was there that I decided I wanted to work in and for the third world and I have been very happy in that since...

Katharine. I have been wondering how to reply to this for a couple of days. I don't want to say the wrong thing!

When we came into Sixes from junior Houses 1 and 5, I appreciate that the done thing then for the V1 form was to act as disciplinarians or organisers and otherwise to take no interest in the younger girls. It was just how things were. The Hag ignored us, and left things to the Study.

You and your peers in the Study were remote figures except for my all too regular visits for punishments at 08.30 most mornings. I do have a memory of you on Dorm Duty, leaning back against the radiator as we had our baths, actually talking to us though.

It's interesting that after having left, you became so altruistic as to want to work for the third world disadvantaged, and your colleague Ruth McCurry (I believe?) is dedicated to rescuing greyhounds. I wonder what happened to the others? Do you know?

Very poor show indeed that you were mocked for your love of maths. Years later Sixes had another maths genius, Mary McDonagh, of whose ability we all had the utmost respect. Shows how things changed.

But at Hertford, you did have mega status. You were (despite any feelings of lack of musicality/literature) very much a Somebody.

Don't mind my old memories -

Munch

[J.R.]

Is this a case of...

'Handbags and the ready, Girls' ?

[Angela Woodford]

But JR, it would be impossible! I have no handbag now!

[sejintenej]

I think Andy has hit the "nail on the head". From the outside CH was seen as the school par excellence. From the inside he and everyone else was competing with his equals who were almost by definition, a way above the hoi polloi. However, being insulated (as all of us were) he couldn't see the outside world.

Katharine shows a different trait. I remember two boys - Di*****on in Col B was a maths genius who simply was so far ahead that he was out of normal life; he virtually could not survive in "normal" society. One appreciates such peoples' ability and pities them at the same time. Then there was John W**ler in Col A who was also very very clever but a physical weakling. In a sports orientated society he came in for a fair amount of stick (but surprisingly little punishment when I think about it). Scholastic ability was not appreciated - only the ability to get points for the house whether on the rugby pitch or athletics track. As for those with an artistic flair (musicians, actors ...) the word "ponce" comes to mind - the worst of the worst.

It's all a question of fitting in with the society in which you are dumped - or suffering.

[J.R.]

I think Andy has hit the "nail on the head". From the outside CH was seen as the school par excellence. From the inside he and everyone else was competing with his equals who were almost by definition, a way above the hoi polloi. However, being insulated (as all of us were) he couldn't see the outside world.

Katharine shows a different trait. I remember two boys - Di*****on in Col B was a maths genius who simply was so far ahead that he was out of normal life; he virtually could not survive in "normal" society. One appreciates such peoples' ability and pities them at the same time. Then there was John W**ler in Col A who was also very very clever but a physical weakling. In a sports orientated society he came in for a fair amount of stick (but surprisingly little punishment when I think about it). Scholastic ability was not appreciated - only the ability to get points for the house whether on the rugby pitch or athletics track. As for those with an artistic flair (musicians, actors ...) the word "ponce" comes to mind - the worst of the worst.

It's all a question of fitting in with the society in which you are dumped - or suffering.

The guy from Coleridge B can be found in this photo, (I think, if memory serves me well !)

viewtopic.php?t=508

Sitting row, Grecians.: Fourth from the left as you view.

Indeed a very strange but loveable character. He would walk around the house very quickly muttering mathematical formulas and the like to himself. Modesty prevents me from printing his full surname.

He, in ways, reminds me of the character played by Russell Crowe in the film 'Beautiful Minds'.

I wonderw what became of him ?

[sejintenej]

I remember two boys - Di*****on in Col B was a maths genius who simply was so far ahead that he was out of normal life; he virtually could not survive in "normal" society.
It's all a question of fitting in with the society in which you are dumped - or suffering.

The guy from Coleridge B can be found in this photo, (I think, if memory serves me well !)

viewtopic.php?t=508

Sitting row, Grecians.: Fourth from the left as you view.

Indeed a very strange but loveable character. He would walk around the house very quickly muttering mathematical formulas and the like to himself. Modesty prevents me from printing his full surname.

He, in ways, reminds me of the character played by Russell Crowe in the film 'Beautiful Minds'.

I wonderw what became of him ?

Photo identity confirmed.

Academia has a lot of people like that so perhaps that is where he went. I don't know his forenames - if you can remember and p, me I'll see if I can trace him. Also, there are at least two spellings of his surname so if your guess agrees with mine ...

I did trace the Col A boy but forget where he is now. OTOH the most unlikely character I know ended up as a university professor in Auckland!

David

[Angela Woodford]

I think Andy has hit the "nail on the head".

In a sports orientated society he came in for a fair amount of stick (but surprisingly little punishment when I think about it). Scholastic ability was not appreciated - only the ability to get points for the house whether on the rugby pitch or athletics track. As for those with an artistic flair (musicians, actors ...) the word "ponce" comes to mind - the worst of the worst.

It's all a question of fitting in with the society in which you are dumped - or suffering.

This revelation of Horsham as a sports orientated society comes as an enormous surprise to me.

At Hertford, I'd always thought of Horsham as a venerable scholastic institution, and I don't quite know why! Oh, and with a strong side emphasis on music and drama. Seems like this was completely wrong.

My husband attended prep school, Brandeston Hall prior to Framlingham College - no choice, Army family. At both institutions, sport was all, scholastic ability rather scorned. The other day, he remembered that, at the age of 10, he was about to take a maths exam when the invigilating master announced that any item dropped from the examinees' desks would be confiscated. Ten minutes into the exam, Alastair dropped his pair of compasses from his desk - the master swooped and took them away. It seems so stupid - he could have failed the exam because of that. (But, then, as now, a good forward planner, he'd stashed duplicate instruments in his pocket).

Sorry about that little story. But emphasis on Sport reminded me. At Hertford, sport wasn't that important in itself as I remember. The ideal was to be a) academic b) musical c) sportive d) good at needlework. Anyone who ticked every box was indeed a superstar! Indeed, they then got to ring the School Bell!

Munch

[fra828]

To go back to Lynne James, at the start of this thread: I was in the same class as her for at CH, and I want to say that it was up to her to voice those comments about CH Hertford on TV (BBC 3-Spendaholics). The school there is long closed and some, and I venture to say many, have not so happy memories of the place. It was restricting and had a profound effect on our lives. For me, friendships were the only thing that made it bearable there. I was unmotivated to work, got not much encouragement from the teachers as I wasn't especially 'good' at anything. As those that experienced both schools could testify, I am sure Horsham was betterfor them.

[Jo]

I don't remember reading the beginning of this thread, which had started before I first joined, and I don't think I caught up with everything that was already here. I'm not sure whether Frances was saying that Lynne James was in her class at CH, but looking at Lynne's age at the date of the programme, she would have been in my year. I vaguely remember the name and I'd have said she was in 1's, but other than that I can't remember anything remarkable about her. I am in touch with someone around the same age from 1's, so have dropped her a note to ask her.

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

I was interested to see "Munch's" Post about being surprised about Horsham being "Sports Orientated"
For me, it was a lifeline. As I have said before, I was a little Cockney Thug from Stockwell, not too bright, and I only got into CH on a "First Three" Scholarship, because one of the "Three" was killed in the Blitz ! It was forever said, that I slid in under the door !
However, being tough and good at Swimming, Rugby and Boxing, my life was easier. I have mentioned before, the Geography Deps, with a good proportion of the First XV. Despite all this Academic disadvantage, we, or at least myself, were given a good education, which has stood me in good stead, in Life.
Christ's Hospital is non- elitist -- Praise the Lord !
I won't hear a word against it -------- or Broadies at Dawn !

[fra828]

Yes Jo, Lynne James was in 1's and we were both in the same class through the school till she left in 5th form and I stayed on till LV1. She was a nice person, easy to get on with.

[michael scuffil]

I think Andy has hit the "nail on the head". From the outside CH was seen as the school par excellence. From the inside he and everyone else was competing with his equals who were almost by definition, a way above the hoi polloi. However, being insulated (as all of us were) he couldn't see the outside world.

Katharine shows a different trait. I remember two boys - Di*****on in Col B was a maths genius who simply was so far ahead that he was out of normal life; he virtually could not survive in "normal" society. One appreciates such peoples' ability and pities them at the same time. Then there was John W**ler in Col A who was also very very clever but a physical weakling. In a sports orientated society he came in for a fair amount of stick (but surprisingly little punishment when I think about it). Scholastic ability was not appreciated - only the ability to get points for the house whether on the rugby pitch or athletics track. As for those with an artistic flair (musicians, actors ...) the word "ponce" comes to mind - the worst of the worst.

It's all a question of fitting in with the society in which you are dumped - or suffering.

The guy from Coleridge B can be found in this photo, (I think, if memory serves me well !)

viewtopic.php?t=508

Sitting row, Grecians.: Fourth from the left as you view.

Indeed a very strange but loveable character. He would walk around the house very quickly muttering mathematical formulas and the like to himself. Modesty prevents me from printing his full surname.

He, in ways, reminds me of the character played by Russell Crowe in the film 'Beautiful Minds'.

I wonderw what became of him ?

He became a consultant on every fact under the sun in Washington DC.

[michael scuffil]

This revelation of Horsham as a sports orientated society comes as an enormous surprise to me.

Munch

It wasn't. Coleridge A was. And W*****r proved himself in other ways, e.g. by singing the part of "the very model of the modern major-general" in the Coleridge production of Pirates of Penzance.