Unofficial Christ's Hospital Forum

Re Crufts and the ilk.

As some of you know, Jan and I used to breed and show Chinchilla's (Silver/shaded Persian cats).

The ego trip in the cat world can be as bad as it is in the dog world, with breeders attempting to better the appearance of breeds by criminal inbreeding, causing all sorts of defects.

Yes - I know people highly connected in the 'Crufts' world. Breeders AND Judges. Unfortunately, Crufts, like the GCCF, (Cats), is controlled by a small narrow minded majority at the top.

I am so pleased that the BBC has boycotted the Crufts show now. I can tell you that this action has cost the Kennel Club a big sack of dosh, and quite rightly too.

The interests of the animal MUST come first, not the breeder/exhibitor.

(....awaits loud knock on the door !!!)

midget wrote:I had an aunt who used to wish to win "the big one" on football pools. She said she would spend the prize money to pay any fine if she made Mrs ?? (owner of the GN course) run round the course and jump all the fences.

Mrs Topham I think.

J.R. wrote:Re Crufts and the ilk.

As some of you know, Jan and I used to breed and show Chinchilla's (Silver/shaded Persian cats).

The ego trip in the cat world can be as bad as it is in the dog world, with breeders attempting to better the appearance of breeds by criminal inbreeding, causing all sorts of defects.

Yes - I know people highly connected in the 'Crufts' world. Breeders AND Judges. Unfortunately, Crufts, like the GCCF, (Cats), is controlled by a small narrow minded majority at the top.

I am so pleased that the BBC has boycotted the Crufts show now. I can tell you that this action has cost the Kennel Club a big sack of dosh, and quite rightly too.

The interests of the animal MUST come first, not the breeder/exhibitor.

(....awaits loud knock on the door !!!)

John,

A friend of mind used to exhibit at Crufts and won her class one year much to her delight.

Her dogs could not be better looked after. They were (are) firstly pets and secondly "exhibits."

According to my friend that is the norm with most owners.

Mid A 15 wrote: John,

A friend of mind used to exhibit at Crufts and won her class one year much to her delight.

Her dogs could not be better looked after. They were (are) firstly pets and secondly "exhibits."

According to my friend that is the norm with most owners.

Andy. I'm not disputing that at all. Not only would Jan and I exhibit, but for years I volunteered/worked as a Judges steward at shows all over the country, including the 'Supreme' and the 'National Cat Club Show', the two 'Crufts' of the Cat World. I was even asked why I didn't apply to become a probationer Judge.

I can honestly say that one Senior Judge might quite blatantly 'overide' GGCF rules to place a cat he/she fancied, (or knew the owner of), where another Senior Judge might with-hold a certificate, or even disqualify a cat for the same fault.

The undershot/overshot - nose leather/eye-line rule being a very common case in question.

(P'raps I'm getting too technical now !)

I am interested in the term "Criminal in-Breeding"------
For Heaven's sake, don't let my children see this ! --- they have always suspected me !

Hi JR

I don't think it made any financial difference to the KC whether the BBC put in an appearance at Crufts or not, they still got their entries (the third highest entry of all time) including a large number of overseas entrants, and stll had the space hire fee from all the trade stands, lots and lots of them.

Plus the regular spectators were there in droves, maybe the show even picked up a few more once they realised they wouldn't be able to get their annual fix from the comfort of their armchairs.

There weren't quite so many "celebs" hoping to be "spotted" as usual.

The excellent on-line coverage was enjoyed by many, and the mindless GBP was able wallow to with satisfaction in their moment of self-congratulation ("....We made the BBC see sense....") so sure as they are that thanks to "that programme on the telly" Crufts has now been banned. True. I have read some wonderfully vitriolic blogs on the subject.

Those who believe dog showing is elitist have usually never visited a dog show, not even Crufts......most dog shows take place in village halls and sports centres all around the country and are jovial, dusty affairs rampant with ladies in pinnies selling cuppa teas and raffle tickets (win a tin of dog food or some bubble bath). Very British, therefore an easy target??

Liz

I think we are really all singing from the same hymn sheet here. Most people love their animals and it is only the ..... (fill in your own pet hate) minority who spoil it for the rest.

My pet hate is people who would rather see a child suffer than an animal. Not that I want to see either suffer

Never been to a "Dog Show " -- Crufts, or otherwise -- but lots of Field Trials -- where the dogs, or Hounds are doing what they love, and itshows !

Thanks Liz, and I agree with MOST of what you say.

I used to write a column for 'Cats' Magazine, and hence made made many contacts with contributors to 'Our Dogs', which is 'Cats' sister magazine.

Recent chats tell me that the fall-out from the BBC's boycott has hit, to some extent the 'suppliers' to the dog-trade, though that might just be the present economic climate.

For the record, I don't agree with tail-docking for the show world, amongst other things, as I don't agree with breeding Persian cats to have a raised pinched nose, causing breathing AND eating problems.

Mating Father to daughter, Son to mother etc., is just asking for trouble. When we took a Queen to stud, we would always ask for a five generation copy-pedigree from the stud owner to ensure a good mix of blood lines.

HOWEVER.......... We digress ! This thread is about horses, which actually taste better than beef !

Hi Again JR

You'll be pleased to hear then that docking is no more and only "undocked and legally docked" dogs are permitted to participate in shows run under the KC's jurisdiction.

Docking is still permitted in some other countries (USA and Ireland for starters) and there is a technicality concerning working/sporting dogs, so you may well still see docked dogs of the gundog breeds taking part in field trials.

Personally I like my dogs (and cats) a fairly natural shape and not too exaggerated, though have to admit to a fondness for hair, which is why we live with Bearded Collies, a semi-long-coated Maine Coon X and a Ragdoll.

Aesthetics aside, temperament and personality is just soooo important, I'm proud to say the dogs we breed are renowned for their sweet natures and versatility.

Currently I am training a young bitch to work sheep and my friend is training her younger brother, go to http://www.spanglefish.com/HerdingBeardies and have a look at Diva and Mirk if you are interested. I judge at championsip show level and don't have any problem penalising unsound animals or those with iffy temperaments, pedigree animals are supposedly "well-bred" so why make excuses?

Back to horses, and I just love thoroughbreds. They seem to want to excel in everything they do, fabulous animals. Shame that some only value them as fodder for their betting "hobby".

Liz

If you like well-trained dogs, what about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2FX9rviEhw

Hi Mary

That one's going the rounds, and because people know I do herding, I keep getting it sent to me!!

Clever stuff CGI and seamlessly blended. There are some who think it's for real..."Aren't Border Collies clever??"

They certainly are, but not that clever.

BTW was it stressful for the sheep running around draped in lights I wonder? They are awfully nervous panicky creatures especially after dusk.

But I expect their owners were paid well for their services.

Liz

Liz Jay wrote:
Back to horses, and I just love thoroughbreds. They seem to want to excel in everything they do, fabulous animals. Shame that some only value them as fodder for their betting "hobby".

Liz

Oh I do too, but having now added a clydie cross (not sure what with - one of the joys of buying a station bred horse, sight unseen, from a dealer: a reputable and caring one I hasten to add) I do have to say that dealing with a non-reactive breed is, well, a lot easier on my adrenal glands This is not to say that Fergie is a dumb arse plodder, it's just that her reaction to the noise of an approaching trail bike, or to a falling tree, is to take a jump sideways, then to stand and think about what has happened.

Fee (unraced TB) is certainly less reactive than Guy or Tower. Tower had an enormous stride and jump, but was not a leader. He was raced for 7 years, during which time he won the princely sum of $150. I suspect that his owners persisted because of his speed, and tried to beat the need to win into him. He ended his years with us, and sometimes something that we were never able to identify would trigger memories and he would retreat mentally to somewhere that even Guy was unable to reach him. Jess (daughter) learnt the hard way not to yell at a horse that has retreated to race mentality: 'I yelled Whoa, but he just went up a gear'.

Guy was never raced, but was sent for training as a 2 year old. He would never intentionally hurt Jess or I, but sometimes something will trigger a memory of who knows what and he will explode in anger.

Sorry, waffling here, and what I wanted to say was that horse and dog racing are not cruel per se: it's all about the individual humans involved. I've seen appalling cruelty in dressage arenas, and even at pony club.

Glad to hear that docked dogs cannot be shown in UK now. That is the only way that the practice will ever be stopped in Oz. My hairdresser, lovely though she is, went to Victoria to buy her docked boxer last year because she couldn't obtain one in SA.

And don't even get me started on docking horses. 'Oh, but the tail gets caught in the harness if it isn't docked'. Well, redesign the bl**dy harness, not the horse.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

No real interest in this topic, other than it is my understanding that the KC chose not to renew it's contract with the the BBC as a result of the documentary, rather than the BBC boycotting Crufts. The role of a national broadcaster is often inherently 'hypocritical' by the need to be balanced - I expect that if the KC had renewed with the BBC, the Beeb would have shown the event with it's usual hype in order to get the ratings up.

Liz Jay wrote:
Docking is still permitted in some other countries (USA and Ireland for starters) and there is a technicality concerning working/sporting dogs, so you may well still see docked dogs of the gundog breeds taking part in field trials.

Never have trusted the U.S.A. as far as animals are concerned.

It's quite acceptable for cat owners over there to 'de-claw' their cats to protect themselves and their furniture.

A barbaric operation, thankfully fully outlawed by the G.C.C.F.

Imagine a de-clawed cat trying to escape a dog. Trees would be out of the equation.