Health and safety gone mad!

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

I seem to have upset Angela -- for which I apologise !

In my defence, I AM an "Old Soldier" -- I have served "In Action" -- My job, for several years was Ammunition and Explosives, and included disposal of Explosive Devices.

I therefore claim, that I know whereof I speak.
I am sorry that I do not know your Son, however, I am pretty certain that, if you asked his opinbion, he would, like any Soldier, look forward to joining his Comrades.

Soldiering can be , by it's nature, a dangerous profession, but we all know that, when we decide to pursue it and recognise the implications.

When you next see your Son, tell him I was an IOO -- now called an ATO, and he will understand.
In any dangerous job, we joke about it !

[Angela Woodford]

I snapped at you NEILL and I'm sorry.

In no way would I say that you don't know what you're talking about. Your joke about an Afghan bullet just seemed a bit tasteless to me, especially after the deaths of the five soldiers sprayed with bullets by an Afghan policeman.

I admit that I have joined in tasteless nursing jokes with colleagues in the past - Mary will know what I mean - but only amongst ourselves, never to the knowledge of patients' families.

Now that I am the mother of a soldier, I am incredibly proud of him; but the sight of the coffins coming back to England, the grief of the families and the revelation that a mother had to buy kit for her soldier son -

I apologise again - but Afghan bullet jokes are not in my comfort zone.

There. Friends again?

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

Confirmed FRIENDS !

I shouldn't be so sensitive ----- and I DO appreciate your worries !

[J.R.]

Manchester United were one of only TWO teams in the F.A. Premiership who would not wear poppies for their weekend matches.

They came to Chelsea FC, who welcome Chelsea Pensioners to games when in uniform, free of charge.

Man U were duly stuffed 1-0 by a John Terry goal, putting Chelsea 5 points clear at the top of the prem.

I think that just about says it all, and I hope Sir Alexandria Funguson was duly impressed - NOT !

[sejintenej]

Manchester United were one of only TWO teams in the F.A. Premiership who would not wear poppies for their weekend matches.

They came to Chelsea FC, who welcome Chelsea Pensioners to games when in uniform, free of charge.

and isn't it Chelsea which is owned by Abramovitch who has no cultural need to support the Poppy Day and Chelsea Pensioner concept.

We didn't hear enough about the Man U lack of poppies - the two managers and their boards should have been forced onto every possible TV news and current affairs show before being railroaded by the FA. Doesn't the FA have a concept like "bringing the game into disrepute"?

[J.R.]

Man U's excuse was that it was pointless as they wear red tops, almost identical in colour to the poppy.


ER - EXCUSE ME !

They wear white shorts. I would have thought a red poppy against the white of the shorts would be highly acceptable.

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

Since I was once a Guardsman -- in Chelsea Barracks (The old Victorian ones) --------As I am now 81 --- does this make me a Chelsea Pensioner ???

Love the Hats !

[Fjgrogan]

Did somebody not point out earlier on this forum that wearing a poppy is representative of a voluntary donation? There seems to be a suggestion here that it should be compulsory to wear one, and presumably therefore to make a donation - or am I mis-reading the sentiments expressed about Manchester United etc? If we are to be deprived of the free choice as to whether or not to (a) make a donation and (b) advertise that we have made a donation by wearing a poppy, then the whole concept becomes meaningless. In the past I have often not worn a poppy although I have made a contribution, because it seems wrong to flaunt one's 'charitable benevolence'! On the other hand I know of many people who bring out the same poppy every year and re-use it without ever making any donation to the charity. In reality the poppy has been 'promoted' from a charity sticker to a symbol of national pride, but that shouldn't make it mandatory. Anyway many players in many football teams are not citizens of this country, so why should they be expected to pretend a pride in this country's achievements which may well have no meaning for them?

[Angela Woodford]

I wish I had kept an old poppy from the days when they were a bit more splendid with several layers of petals. I like the idea of an enamel poppy brooch very much, if I could manage to pin it on safely...

I always wear a poppy with pride - not so much to advertise charitable benevolence, but to express pride and gratitude for our troops past and present.

I wish I could put much, much more money in the box!

Health and safety! It's the corned beef tin which has always been a peril for me! You know, when the little key thing breaks off and you think that you can wrestle out the contents with a tin opener. Yet, the corned beef seems more... authentic in its traditional tin!

[englishangel]

I agree with Angela, it is a symbol so you can bring your poppy out year after year and make a donation. Craig Revel Horwood on Sctrictly come Dancing and Carol Kirkwood BBC Breakfast Time weather woman both had jewelled poppies. Have just Googled this and apparently they are designed by jewellers and auctioned with 10% of the purchase price going to the Royal British Legion.

[sejintenej]

Did somebody not point out earlier on this forum that wearing a poppy is representative of a voluntary donation? There seems to be a suggestion here that it should be compulsory to wear one, and presumably therefore to make a donation - or am I mis-reading the sentiments expressed about Manchester United etc? If we are to be deprived of the free choice as to whether or not to (a) make a donation and (b) advertise that we have made a donation by wearing a poppy, then the whole concept becomes meaningless. In the past I have often not worn a poppy although I have made a contribution, because it seems wrong to flaunt one's 'charitable benevolence'! On the other hand I know of many people who bring out the same poppy every year and re-use it without ever making any donation to the charity. In reality the poppy has been 'promoted' from a charity sticker to a symbol of national pride, but that shouldn't make it mandatory. Anyway many players in many football teams are not citizens of this country, so why should they be expected to pretend a pride in this country's achievements which may well have no meaning for them?

Whilst I cannot fault your facts, Frances, I still disagree with you. The Axis countries and Japan (not sure if it is c;lassified as an Axis country) were at war with almost every country in the world and it is citizens of many of those other countries who are also involved. Certainly it is up to the individual whether or not to donate, and if a donation is made whether or not to wear a poppy; I cannot fault citizens of the Axis nations plus Spain and just a few other erstwhile enemy / neutral countries from not wanting to donate but I do object to clubs actually stopping their players from wearing a poppy as seems to be the case here. If Abramovitch has no objection to actually supporting Chelsea Pensioners then certain other club managers can be a little more relaxed at least.

[Fjgrogan]

David, I don't think we do disagree - we both think that it should be a matter of individual choice, not influenced by 'club rules' or perceived stigma?

[Angela Woodford]

A few years ago, I spotted a marvellous elderly gentleman outside Sainsbury's, collecting for the Royal Air Force.

Having had one leg amputated, he was in a wheelchair. He had the most terrific traditional moustache!

I grabbed my purse to make a donation. He shook my hand, and, placing a sticker on my jacket, pronounced gravely

"Madam, I would like to present you with - your WINGS!"

It was a lovely moment.

[J.R.]

The TV footage from Wotton Bassett last night was extremely poignant.

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

I appreciate that not everybody views the Poppy (Or the British Legion !) with all that respect, which I agree, can be overdone. But keep donating !------ I rather like the idea of the "Ironed Poppy" , for 20 years !!!

It is my belief that it is the Remembrance which counts, and it is interesting to note that the 11am Silence is generally observed, even in London traffic, which wasn't the case only a few years ago .

I know it is trite to say that it would be better if we had no more wars -- but I remember that it was only 1968, which was a year, when we lost no Servicemen. At least we are spared the Slaughter of the last two big Wars --- there is an expression "Carry on regardless" --- few people know that it continues ---" of casualties"