Unofficial Christ's Hospital Forum

I think onewestguncopse points out the fact that CH is now in competition with other schools. I don't think it was in our day. If pupils had not gone to CH they would almost certainly have been in state schools, in many cases I think parents knew nothing of CH until the offer came. It is very sad, but times change. However, if the school has not been communicating with the parents it is at fault. Open communication about difficulties is very important and missing in so many areas of life nowadays.

I have two step grand-daughters in a private day school in Aberdeen. The elder won 100% academic scholarship. The younger refused to take the scholarship exams saying she was going with her friends to the local Comp. She did not settle there and was very unhappy, refusing to go to school. The private school then gave her 100% bursary to go there. My son's comment was that they are doing such things to keep their charitable status, and that two schools in Scotland had been robbed of their status.

Katharine wrote:The private school then gave her 100% bursary to go there. My son's comment was that they are doing such things to keep their charitable status, and that two schools in Scotland had been robbed of their status.

Your son is absoutly right, where previously they got away with just letting the local comp's use their sports grounds they now have to do more to prove charitable status which they are doing so through far more 100%/70% scholarships etc, so with so many good independent schools doing this CH is now in competiton with them all

I agree with the point made earlier about the school up to this point being able to offer fee reductions that enabled all who wanted to come, to come. We were unique but no longer. Most independent schools are charities and most now are moving all there scholarship money into means tested bursaries. They are in the same market as we are, albeit with less money than we have. That is why many of our potential students end up in other fee paying schools. Most are day schools and therefore a damn sight cheaper. Full boarding is very expensive, up to double the cost of some day schools. If you get a 50% scholarship to a day school it is cheaper to go there. We offer them a place and they choose the cheaper option. That is our challenge in a competative market - why pay more if you are a parent on a lowish income? Perhaps full boarding is the thing that has no long term future? Heretical perhaps but it is sooooo expensive.

We are moving towards, sadly, a position that full needs blind status (ie we take you regardless of your ability to pay) is no longer possible. The money is not there anymore. The challenge is deciding what we do now. Do we reduce our size or take more fee paying students? Not an easy choice but if the money is not there, it is not there...what happened in the past is irrelevant in the current climate. This is a genuine crisis - we will survive but perhaps not with the ability to offer 100% of our applicants fee remission.

In the light of Onewestguncopse's comments, I have taken a look at the latest Annual Review available on the school website. There is nothing in this Review to suggest that CH is no longer unique, nor that it is no longer able to fulfil its charitable mission; in fact, quite the contrary! There is, however, a recognition that the gap between endowment income and expenditure has widened during the recent economic crisis, and I was particularly intrigued to read the following:

Finance: A new medium term plan was prepared and approved, quantifying the gap between our resources and our needs and identifying the steps necessary to close this gap by 2015.

Unfortunately, the Review does not give much indication of what the steps identified actually are! I don't know whether Onewestguncopse's suggestions are purely personal speculation, but if these steps are likely to include reducing the size of the School, increasing class sizes, increasing the level of assessed contribution or moving away from full boarding then surely these are issues which should be communicated to current - and perhaps more particularly to prospective - parents.

When deciding to accept a place at CH for our own children, we were certainly not looking for "the cheapest option"; for us and I imagine for many other families our only actual alternative (much cheaper!) was the local state comprehensive. What we were looking for however was the best option for our children, and we had to think long and hard before committing to years of financial struggle to provide this. For parents to make this huge decision they need to have confidence that the reasons why they have chosen the school, and the terms to which they commit, are likely to remain reasonably stable for the duration of their child's time at CH. The contract between parent and school places responsibilities on both parties.

As I've already said, I can fully comprehend why the Foundation are struggling to keep up with expenditure, as we all are! But I'm somewhat baffled that the messages being sent out about the charitable nature of the school appear to be essentially unchanged, and the target market remains the 'needy'. If, as Onewestguncopse suggests, the historic and essential nature of CH is changing, then surely part of the school's responsibility is to grasp the nettle and start communicating this more effectively to parents. Failure to do this may well create another worrying 'gap', that between the stated mission of the school and the experience of its pupils!

I have to say that I agree with everything that ailurophile has to say and can say far more eloquently than I can.

When I was looking around for options for my son I was not able to afford another independent school - for the local one we hadnt been living locally enough to qualify for the scholarship scheme and as has been pointed out boarding is very expensive and so prohibitive. A family member introduced me to CH and my initial assessment was affordable and so my son and I decided to go for it, as it will be the better option for him than the local comp. So we certainly aren't part of that group who can afford independent education and see CH as one of many options.

I think the communication and marketing of CH is really a issue. 2 years ago I was told my contribution would be about £3000 and now I am told nearly £7000. Whilst I understand the financial situation that has led to this, what about my financial situation? How can I have made an informaed decision about going down this route?

I am very excited about my son's iminent entry to CH but I can't deny that I am extremely worried about the finances as I can see that I will be very close to the edge and I can see that ailurophile's position is one that I may well find myself in.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8068008.stm

another view

An interesting article, Englishangel. Of course, this illustrates just another of the reasons why CH is unique; because of the charitable nature of the Foundation, funding is often provided to support the poorer families assessed as being unable to pay for music lessons, sports kit and school trips. Strangely, it is the children of the 'better off' middle-income families who may find that their parents not only cannot afford to pay for extras, but ultimately for their place at the school.

I wonder whether any of the 25 pupils questioned for the Sutton Trust's research were OBs?!

Unusually for prospective CH parents, we are in a position to pay full fees. We looked at CH, liked it and it didn't bother us that we would be one of only 21 families paying full fees - we think that is fair. We duly got confirmation that our son could apply as a "New Foundationer" ie paying full fees. But I checked the fees a few days ago and got a real shock. The new full fees are £24,000 a year which is quite an increase on the figure of £20,442 when I last checked. It's not the level that is so shocking because in fact it takes CH up to the usual level for boarding schools - some charge less and some charge more. But two things really are strange. Nothing on the website to publicise, explain or properly communicate such a big rise in fees. The second thing is that the rate is being applied across all the years, even Year 7 and 8 whereas boarding schools which take pupils at 11 charge the much lower 'prep school' rate for Years 7 and 8 - I don't know of a single one which doesn't do that. The effect of this is that we would be paying (compared to the other boarding schools we have looked at) £5,000 - £6000 more for each of the first 2 years; pretty similar thereafter. That is crazy! If there really is a desire to get in a few full fee payers then that is just shooting themselves in the foot. That is just out of touch with commercial reality and common sense and demonstrates no sense of how to bring in the extra revenue that CH needs.

In the letter from the Head Master which we received today, there is a section on school fees. The letter states that currently there are 12% of families paying no fees, less than 3% paying full fees and the rest are somewhere in between, with the average fee per pupil being approximately £4000 per year. It points out that the full cost per year for each pupil is OVER £24,000, and that the shortfall, as we know, is made up by donations and endowment returns. It goes on to say that during this recession, with the endowment not performing, the Council of Almoners are doing all they can to make sure pupils and families are unaffected. But, Mr Franklin pointed out that CH does not set the fee levels, the calculations are done by the Foundation Office and fee contribution queries need to be directed to the Admissions Offficer in the Foundation Office. He said though that while he cannot do much at all to change fee calculations, he will do what he can in an emergency.

Whilst I can't comment on the 'prep school' rates Dusty mentioned, I do know that most, if not all, other independent schools are also having to increase their fees substantially. But, as ailurophile points out, these increases come at a time when we are all struggling to make ends meet already. Anyone got a magic wand?

lonelymom wrote: Mr Frankin pointed out that CH does not set the fee levels, the calculations are done by the Foundation Office and fee contribution queries need to be directed to the Admissions Offficer in the Foundation Office.

How very convenient!

This is one of the best written and most sensibly and thoroughly argued threads I've read on any forum.

I just hope someone in the Foundation Office is reading it.

(OMG! I made a typo on Mr Franklin's name!)

I know I'm not alone in this, but it is the unforseen expenses that get me, things that I can't plan for and can't afford when they happen. For example, a couple of weeks ago my husband's truck was stolen, and we now have a £350 insurance excess to pay. When you live on a budget it is so hard to find that sort of money

No school fees for me but I know what you mean. Just when the budget is teetering into credit I have a catastrophic filling failure, sort of "When Toffee met Filling". I think I'll just have the damn thing out and start looking like a crone.

It is just those sort of unforseens that are scaring me silly!

And not just the unforseens - car tax and MOT for example. Or is a car considered a luxury?

I suppose that my only real gripe with the Foundation is that the increase in fees and contributions came as a shock and I dont feel that I have gone through the process fully informed about where it would leave me financially. Would it have made a difference if they had assessed me as they have now, 2 years ago? The answer is undeniably yes. I dont think we would have considered it affordable.

The other worry is what happens if fees, and therefore contributions rise again? And that I think, takes us back to the OP's position.

Well I try to put a little bit aside each week for things like road tax, MOT and insurance (for two vehicles), but who puts money aside for things like some b****rd (apologies if I've offended anyone) stealing a vehicle from right off your driveway? It is one of those things that you never expect to happen, and our budget is so tight that we don't have any 'rainy day funds'. And it's not something you can say, oh well, we'll manage without, because we have no say in the matter, it is a compulsory excess. Without his truck he can't work, then we won't have his income at all

As for future fee increases, I would HOPE that the £3500 increase this year would be a large one-off, and that future increases are kept to a minimum each year (fingers crossed anyway), because surely the fees can't go up by that amount each year?! But are you saying that you feel like you've sort of been tricked into taking up the place, YadaYada?

Oh yes, and I forgot to say, the Head Master letter also said that there would be a 'chat room' for parents on the school website soon. I got the impression that it would be completely separate to this forum, but JT would know if it was linked in any way?

lonelymom wrote:Well I try to put a little bit aside each week for things like road tax, MOT and insurance (for two vehicles), but who puts money aside for things like some b****rd (apologies if I've offended anyone) stealing a vehicle from right off your driveway? It is one of those things that you never expect to happen, and our budget is so tight that we don't have any 'rainy day funds'. And it's not something you can say, oh well, we'll manage without, because we have no say in the matter, it is a compulsory excess. Without his truck he can't work, then we won't have his income at all

As for future fee increases, I would HOPE that the £3500 increase this year would be a large one-off, and that future increases are kept to a minimum each year (fingers crossed anyway), because surely the fees can't go up by that amount each year?! But are you saying that you feel like you've sort of been tricked into taking up the place, YadaYada?

Oh yes, and I forgot to say, the Head Master letter also said that there would be a 'chat room' for parents on the school website soon. I got the impression that it would be completely separate to this forum, but JT would know if it was linked in any way?

Maybe we are considered too subversive for parents

Regarding your insurance excess you should be able to pay it on a credit card if you have one. I did when a t*** smashed into my wife's car when my then 18 year old daughter was driving it! Hence the compulsory excess.