New Forum Section - Hertford Memories

[Angela Woodford]

I notice that sejintenej has often signed off with the observation that a large income is the best recipe for happiness...

Despite the fact that you, JR and Foureyes can remember women who made an unfortunate choice of man, or were sadly bereaved, I maintain that some of our Hertford mistresses would have chosen the life of a single professional woman. (You never met DR West!) I simply can't imagine them as "married" - whether the restrictions of Hertford life may have further shaped their characters as independent women, who can say?

The housemistresses were different. They were on the whole women who had fallen on difficult times who needed a live-in job and who had seen an ad in "The Lady".

But the single teaching staff - they were very much highly academic/skilled women who must have earned a decent salary... and they seem to feature most vividly in our memories!

There were a few married women, who lived out - Mrs Betterton, Mrs Lewis, Mrs Trotman, Mrs Toplis, Mrs Fiddaman, Mrs Lewis - come to think of it, they were all very nice!

Munch

[Katharine]

Despite the fact that you, JR and Foureyes can remember women who made an unfortunate choice of man, or were sadly bereaved, I maintain that some of our Hertford mistresses would have chosen the life of a single professional woman. (You never met DR West!) I simply can't imagine them as "married" - whether the restrictions of Hertford life may have further shaped their characters as independent women, who can say?

The housemistresses were different. They were on the whole women who had fallen on difficult times who needed a live-in job and who had seen an ad in "The Lady".

But the single teaching staff - they were very much highly academic/skilled women who must have earned a decent salary... and they seem to feature most vividly in our memories!

I think it was a time when academic women did NOT have the choice of carrying on with a career and a marriage. My own mother was training as a midwife when my parents wanted to get married - my father was being posted overseas. She would have been thrown out of midwifery school for getting married. My parents decided to wait and the war intervened and changed all plans.

In 1970 I made the choice to get married, given John's career with the British Council I knew that I had given up any chance of rising up any career ladder myself. As my subject is Maths I expected to be able to teach in most countries we would be sent to work in. This was the case and sometimes I did get promotion if we were in a country long enough. I KNOW that I have not achieved as much academically as I might have done had I not married - I do NOT regret my decision. At the time, fo me, the decision was career or marriage, things are different now.

I do respect anyone who made different decisions about their own lives.

[icomefromalanddownunder]

I think it was a time when academic women did NOT have the choice of carrying on with a career and a marriage. My own mother was training as a midwife when my parents wanted to get married - my father was being posted overseas. She would have been thrown out of midwifery school for getting married. My parents decided to wait and the war intervened and changed all plans.

My ex-Mother in law was an alcoholic, and her behaviour resulted in my father in law being asked to leave the Met. Well, so the story goes, but his own behaviour could have been a contributing factor.

In 1970 I made the choice to get married, given John's career with the British Council I knew that I had given up any chance of rising up any career ladder myself. As my subject is Maths I expected to be able to teach in most countries we would be sent to work in. This was the case and sometimes I did get promotion if we were in a country long enough. I KNOW that I have not achieved as much academically as I might have done had I not married - I do NOT regret my decision. At the time, fo me, the decision was career or marriage, things are different now.

I do respect anyone who made different decisions about their own lives.

I have often commented that I could not be doing what I am (full-time post grad study, plus part-time work) and sustain a relationship. I guess, if I were still married I wouldn't need the supplementary income from the path lab, but I'm not sure that many men would be supportive enough to put up with the evening and weekend hours that my study alone entails.

My mother, who has a particularly low, and well deserved, opinion of my ex has repeatedly commented to my brother that I could have studied for a PhD years ago if it weren't for Martin (the ex). The fact is that I had been offered scholarships in the past, but the projects didn't really interest me, and it just wasn't the right time for me. The salient point being, that it was my decision, admittedly based on many facts, including that I knew that I would have no support from the ex, but my decision none the less, and one that I in no way regret. I enjoyed going sailing and riding with the children at weekends, and having the time and emotional energy to help out as required at their schools and Scout groups.

As an aside, I am still laughing at my visions of the type of male who could have lived with and satisfied Queenie

[midget]

I love that last line. She must have started being a haridan very early in life because she was like it when she first came to CH. On the other hand I have vague memories of her being quite human at study Sunday teas. Did that custon still continue? If the members of the study were taking a wide range of subjects, which we were in my last year, you were visited by almost all the staff during the year.

[icomefromalanddownunder]

I love that last line. She must have started being a haridan very early in life because she was like it when she first came to CH. On the other hand I have vague memories of her being quite human at study Sunday teas. Did that custon still continue? If the members of the study were taking a wide range of subjects, which we were in my last year, you were visited by almost all the staff during the year.

I didn't stay long enough to a member of the Study, so can't comment.

Fortunatley, for whatever reason, Queenie didn't terrify me (unlike that woman who taught needlework, whose name I cannot bring myself to type), and her sarcastic comments just made me laugh. OMG, maybe I have the potential to become like her I used to make little effort with my prep, but when stuck in a classroom with an exam paper in front of me, unable to leave until time was up, I did reasonably well. I still remember receiving one piece of work which Queenie had marked 'D-, a great improvement'. Far from feeling useless/incompetent/stupid, I laughed, feeling that she was attempting to rouse me from my laziness. I could, of course, have been completely wrong, and she may have thought me a stupid, useless, waste of her time

[Katharine]

I love that last line. She must have started being a haridan very early in life because she was like it when she first came to CH. On the other hand I have vague memories of her being quite human at study Sunday teas. Did that custon still continue? If the members of the study were taking a wide range of subjects, which we were in my last year, you were visited by almost all the staff during the year.

It was not Sunday tea in my time, but coffee in the evenings. Yes, we were expected to invite all the teachers who taught anyone in the Study, plus any others you wanted to invite. We had great fun deciding the pairings (I think it was two at a time). We tried to get the most unlikely two and then see if we could spark off conversation.

[midget]

Our teaching staff would invite 6th formers to coffee. I remember being most impressed with Miss Bushell (physics) who used individual ceramic filters for the coffee- we certainly never had anything like that at home. The only trouble was that they were terribly slow to filter, so by the time there was enough in the cup to drink it was starting to get cold.

[englishangel]

I don't remember ever inviting staff to coffee, tea or anything else so had probably died out by our time.

Munch, you forgot Mrs Thomas, she taught Maths and her husband was a Methodist minister, most of whom move on after a 3 or 4 years, but I think they had school age children so they remained in Hertford for longer so their children did not jhave to move schools in an exam year. She was lovely, thought that O level Maths was too easy so put 10 or so of us in for Additional Maths at the same time, which I think we all passed.


I always thought Queenie would have exhausted any man. I think if you did classics in sixth form she was completely different. (I do wish Judy Furnival was on here).

My mother (about 10 years younger than Katharine's I believe) trained as a nurse and midwife before marrying and carried on working afterwards. She took me to work in my pram and put me on the verandah of the little cottage hospital where she was a ward sister. When my brother came along (2 years younger) she gave up work. Then she went back when my sister (8 years younger) started school. She then trained as health visitor in her 40s and worked to 65.

I got married as I graduated and had great trouble getting any interviewers to take me seriously which I couldn't believe (having a working mother as a role model) and trained as nurse/midwife along the same lines as Katharine (whither thou goest I will go and be able to get a job).

My daughter is not going to get married and become dependent on a man.

Truth to tell nor was I at 18 and getting married at 21 was probably the biggest surprise of my life.

[Liz Jay]

Hiya girls (and boys)

Just been away for a weekend to a dog show in Scotland and come back to find loads of fascinating messages, so need to catch up quickly.

Re people called "Miss", there are a few in the dog world, tending to be senior judges of great authority, and I find myself uncharacteristically humble and awestruck when dealing with them, so I'm certain they trigger some childhood memories.

Re men in uniform, don't forget I was a Forces brat, and many of my early romances were with the young boys in khaki, there seemed to be an endless supply of muscular and gallant squaddies to choose from. To avoid jealousy, my sisters and I showed (almost) no favouritism and ran a string of them apiece rather like racehorses. It used to be upsetting when they in turn disappeared off to Northern Ireland, and we used to worry about them, but to be fair most of them came back as cute and boisterous as ever, though some became morose and hard-drinking, at least two had nervous breakdowns and one attempted suicide.
I remember the singer Harvey Andrews visiting the BFBS folk club and singing "Soldier" with tears streaming down his cheeks, and thought it was tragic that the BBC saw fit to ban this song, which effectively nobbled his career as a singer, though he continues to sing on, with a small but discriminating fanbase.
Khaki is ever dear to my heart, and I am very fond of the RAF uniform as well, such a subtle shade of blue, but my personal sit-up-and-take-notice uniform is a nice fireman. Anyone else seen the Chippendales' take on firemen??? Oh how I giggled!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry Munch but Dave the Driving Instructor will have to wait for another post.

Love

[Angela Woodford]

I don't remember ever inviting staff to coffee, tea or anything else so had probably died out by our time.

Munch, you forgot Mrs Thomas, she taught Maths and her husband was a Methodist minister, most of whom move on after a 3 or 4 years, but I think they had school age children so they remained in Hertford for longer so their children did not jhave to move schools in an exam year. She was lovely, thought that O level Maths was too easy so put 10 or so of us in for Additional Maths at the same time, which I think we all passed.


I always thought Queenie would have exhausted any man.

How right you are Mary! Queenie! I wonder what she was like when she was young? I wonder if she had a string of beaus, half terrified, half fascinated? Midget remembers her pretty much as we all do.

And I did forget dear Mrs Thomas. Regrettably, the Maths teaching of even this kindly woman passed clean through my head, but she was very nice, with exceptional patience.

On the whole it seems that the married Mistresses are imprinted far less forcibly on our memories. Does this mean that they were more pleasant and broad minded, mellowed by marriage, or that they were the kind of personality who attracted a husband to begin with?

(Does this mean that I'm offending every feminist on the Forum?)

The coffee evenings happened only occasionally by 1971, so I think we must have been the last year to entertain the staff!

Goodness Liz, a thing for firemen! And attendence at Chippendale shows!
I do like men in uniforms myself - thinks... and I realise why! My worst fault is a tendency to procrastinate. Soldiers, firemen, the occasional policeman - they do things immediately, leaping into action etc. (Go on then, JR!) Most appealing!

Love

Munch

[icomefromalanddownunder]

On the whole it seems that the married Mistresses are imprinted far less forcibly on our memories. Does this mean that they were more pleasant and broad minded, mellowed by marriage, or that they were the kind of personality who attracted a husband to begin with?

Can't answer your last question (bit like 'are only arrogant bas!ards accepted into medical school, or does the system create the monsters?'), but IMHO Mrs B, Mrs T, Mrs F, Mrs T were lovely human beings who u nderstood the trials and tribulations of dealing with teenage girls. This is not to say that some of the unmarried staff weren't also, it's just that not all of them were.

Goodness Liz, a thing for firemen!

I still come over all unecessary when I remember acting as adult helper on a Cub Group trip to our local fire station. The adult helpers (all female) were absolutely no help at all - far too busy perving. And then they bought out a hose ..................

Munch

[englishangel]

Even my daughter (boys are stupid throw rocks at them) has a thing for firefighters (as we must now call them). she was a St John's cadet and they had a trip to the local fire-station when she was about 14, she came home extremely unnecessary.

[kayinbaja]

...told me that if i sat cross-legged I would get fat knees. Guess what? Now 52 years old, skinny as a rake except for huge knees. Should have listened to the knee advice. Did really well in French O level, though.

[icomefromalanddownunder]

...told me that if i sat cross-legged I would get fat knees. Guess what? Now 52 years old, skinny as a rake except for huge knees. Should have listened to the knee advice. Did really well in French O level, though.

Hello Kay

My knees are so fat I don't think that I can cross my legs any longer

[Angela Woodford]

...told me that if i sat cross-legged I would get fat knees. Guess what? Now 52 years old, skinny as a rake except for huge knees. Should have listened to the knee advice. Did really well in French O level, though.

The things some of the mistresses got away with saying .

Chemi T called me a slut for sitting on a desk swinging my legs.

And do you remember The Needlework Mistress Whose Very Name Distresses Caroline and her "guttersnipes" rage at Ashbourne?

Queenie must have been the most free and frank with scathing remarks, but somehow they were also very funny...

I was remembering Miss Mercer's diet, 1970. She suddenly appeared in a black dress showing off a waistline. Must have taken loads of willpower with the Hertford standard menu! When complimented, she modestly admitted to "cutting down a bit here and there".

Munch