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Re: Submissive wives

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:45 pm
by NEILL THE NOTORIOUS
Just look back on some of the remarks, which have been made on this particular Thread.

I have not seen any which have been males ctiticising their wives ----- but a heck of a lot of snide remarks about husbands,

I was really trying to level the playing field, by pointing out that some of us have respect for each other.

So There !!

Re: Submissive wives

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:49 am
by MaryB
for the record, here is Church Times article on the curate's wife.
Clergy wife submits a defence

Ed Beavan

THE WIFE of a curate who was criticised in the national media for preaching a sermon encouraging wives to submit to their husbands has spoken out in his support

Jane Oden, wife of the Revd Mark Oden, Assistant Curate of St Nicholas’s, Sevenoaks, said that she agreed with her husband’s teaching from the First Epistle of St Peter on the issue of male headship in marriage. Mrs Oden conceded that the idea of submission seemed outdated to modern society, but she emphasised that the concept needed to be understood within the context of the Bible. “Words like submission and humility have negative connotations in our society, but the Bible prizes them as attributes, and Christ demonstrates how beautiful they are,” she said.
The biblical doctrine of submission was “the opposite of the battle of the sexes. It’s about accepting the obvious fact that men and women are different, but that difference doesn’t mean inequality. It’s about allowing your husband to be a man, and to take up his role of servant leadership, based on the example of Christ.”
Mrs Oden, a mother of three, said that the media had “completely overlooked” her husband’s second sermon based on 1 Peter, where husbands are urged to love their wives sacrificially, putting their wives’ needs before their own, in the same way as Christ loves the Church. The “media storm” had missed an important aspect of the biblical idea of submission: that it was not about coercion by husbands, but freedom of choice for women. “Nowhere in the Bible does it say that husbands must make their wives submit. Sub mission is a response on the part of the wife, whom chooses to submit out of reverence to Christ, who she loves more than her husband.”
Mrs Oden said that there were thousands of churches in the UK and across the world full of “modern women who choose to submit to their husbands. People might not like it, but they’d better believe it.”
In a statement on the St Nicholas’s website, the Rector, the Revd Angus MacLeay, said that Mr Oden’s sermons on 1 Peter recognised “the full equality of men and women whilst also being aware from the scriptures of their differing roles and responsibilities”.

Re: Submissive wives

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:49 pm
by Fjgrogan
I just had a silly thought - as I posted a comment on another thread I noticed that the button I pressed did not say 'Send' but 'Submit' - why is that? What does it have to do with submission; offering a comment for acceptance, in the knowledge that it might theoretically be turned down by the moderators, yes, but is that submitting?

Re: Submissive wives

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:01 pm
by sejintenej
Fjgrogan wrote:I just had a silly thought - as I posted a comment on another thread I noticed that the button I pressed did not say 'Send' but 'Submit' - why is that? What does it have to do with submission; offering a comment for acceptance, in the knowledge that it might theoretically be turned down by the moderators, yes, but is that submitting?
Frances, just remember that (as usual?) the men have to "submit" so it is a dead heat between the sexe3s - on that point.

As for the original, whatever the reason and origin, I think that in today's day and age the sermon was either badly written OR it was incompletely quoted. There was a time when family groups wandering in the Sinai desert depended on other members of that family group for survival. Education, such as it was, went from father to son so it was the males who had the most learning (perhaps minimal) whilst the females had to be hidden from rival families who might want to seize the females as slaves. Hence the veil is no longer so necessary unless slavery still takes place. Experience showed that, in the absence of refrigeration and other perfect preservation methods, some foods very quickly became poisonous and were banned as a danger. Another rule out of date?

Many religions, Christianity included, have hangovers from centuries ago which are no longer logical but which they cannot change.

As for obedience (which becomes submission) until the 1800's women's education was somewhat limited. It was perhaps Emily Pankhurst who started peo;llke realising that women could become the equal of men. I emphasise "could" because womens' brains often work differently from those of men; they are better at some thiongs but usually worse at others. Therefore there are areas where womens' abilities should be respected, perhaps acted upon, and others where men are better.
Submission: surely it is allowing someone else to make the decisions because of superior intellect. If it is allowing control to someone else willy-nilly then I am against the principle. IMHO there is an exception - between trusting couples behind closed doors but lets not get into that.

Re: Submissive wives

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:47 pm
by Fjgrogan
Another stray thought - does 'Islam' not mean 'submission'?

Re: Submissive wives

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:42 pm
by sejintenej
Fjgrogan wrote:Another stray thought - does 'Islam' not mean 'submission'?
Google Translator gives as synonyms:
Obedience, Subjection, Subordination

Re: Submissive wives

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:11 pm
by jhopgood
[quote="sejintenej
Many religions, Christianity included, have hangovers from centuries ago which are no longer logical but which they cannot change.
I emphasise "could" because womens' brains often work differently from those of men; they are better at some thiongs but usually worse at others. Therefore there are areas where womens' abilities should be respected, perhaps acted upon, and others where men are better. [/quote]

Maybe the world would be a better place if some of these "hangovers" were changed.

I am sure many have seen this but it is about the "brain".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuMZ73mT5zM

Re: Submissive wives

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:06 pm
by NEILL THE NOTORIOUS
When an altercation breaks out on the Rugby Field ---- it is usually called "HANDBAGS"

I rest my case !!! :lol:

Re: Submissive wives

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:53 pm
by J.R.
NEILL THE NOTORIOUS wrote:When an altercation breaks out on the Rugby Field ---- it is usually called "HANDBAGS"

I rest my case !!! :lol:

Much the same in 'footy'