Unofficial Christ's Hospital Forum

Scazza wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:41 pm

Robinson wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:26 pm
Also, I remember that Mike Gladding used to HATE it when his students went to Dobbie's house, which was just opposite Peele B when he was housemaster. Maybe he just didn't like the guy.

As a biologist Gladding was contemptuous of all things religious but there may have been other reasons.....

Gladding was great! Such a cynical b@$t@rd but a brilliant teacher with a passion for biology. I had him for GCSE and A-Level and definitely owe him some gratitude now I'm a professor of (paleo)biology. I don't want tot hijack this thread but if anyone has contact info for him, please DM me!

There was a great deal of corporal punishment at the school in the 1970s, though I think that the amount depended to some extent on the house that you were in. In my junior house you could be cracked for talking after lights out or getting a small amount of water on the floor in the lav-ends and not mopping it up, for example. Newsome caned people regularly. I had seen corporal punishment occur in state schools and I could see that there was a difference at CH. In state schools the teacher hit the child with a ruler on the hand in front of the class. Generally, at CH you were hit in the master's study on your bottom, extremely hard (e.g. with a run up or 'tangents'). So there was a significant element of sadism. The CH house punishment was typically meted out in the evening, with the pupil and master alone, and perhaps after the master had become 'disinhibited' (cf. Webb).The CH punishments were intended to shame, humiliate, and harm the solitary recipient, and (I now suspect) provide pleasure to the master. I suspect this last element was what appealed most to those that administered the punishments.

graham wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:18 pm

jtaylor wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:08 am Quote from The Guardian (I know, sorry, don't like quoting that!):

The ban on corporal punishment came into force in 1986 in British state schools (private schools took a while longer: until 1998 in England and Wales, 2000 in Scotland and 2003 in Northern Ireland).

Source

I can clearly recall Ken Grimshaw showing a bunch of us squits in Maine B his punishment log, in 1990 or 91. KHG was a stickler for doing things by the book and so it certainly would not surprise me to discover that this was a document of his own invention, and not a requirement that other housemasters followed. Nonetheless, I have two recollections from this. First, I am sure he said that caning was phased out prior to the ban on on the slipper. But more importantly I also remember that the last entry in his log was some years prior to us joining. It seemed like an age before at the time but ~ 1986 seems about right. The main point though is that slippering was certainly considered by some housemasters to be against the rules by the early 90's.

The Navy keep punishment logs. It wouldn't be that unusual as some primaeval step towards governance.

I don't suppose anyone can find them after all this time. After all, this was long, long, long ago and the school is a totally different place now.

Is it too fanciful a thought that corporal punishment was a (then) legal safety-valve, so to speak, for the abuser brigade?

Interesting who hasn't replied to this thread.

LHA wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:43 am Interesting who hasn't replied to this thread.

Care to give us a clue ?

LHA wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:43 am Interesting who hasn't replied to this thread.

I think this is going off at a tangent.

J.R. wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:14 am

LHA wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:43 am Interesting who hasn't replied to this thread.

Care to give us a clue ?

I wonder if there were any OBs from our era who were not slippered or caned. It was so common, run of the mill, normal that we didn't think much of it (except for our feelings for one poor grunt in Peele who seemed to get it more than the average.)

Prep B 1946-7, Col B 1947-54, I have no memory of being caned, nor of Pink being in any way odd, although I do remember an ex-naval 2nd housemaster in Col B called David Farrar gymshoeing two entire rugger teams after a match he was refereeing descended into chaos because he couldn't keep discipline. He lasted a year but maybe decided schoolmastering wasn't for him.

I have no recollection at all of paedophile masters and didn't, I expect, even know such things went on apart from overhearing one rather odd remark by Buck right at the end when I was a monitor - wrote that off as misplaced sense of humour. My only real problem was bullying from one particular boy (and his jackal) when I was a junior in Col B, that really got through to me but another contemporary had it from them a whole heap worse.

graham wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:18 pm

jtaylor wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:08 am Quote from The Guardian (I know, sorry, don't like quoting that!):

The ban on corporal punishment came into force in 1986 in British state schools (private schools took a while longer: until 1998 in England and Wales, 2000 in Scotland and 2003 in Northern Ireland).

Source

I can clearly recall Ken Grimshaw showing a bunch of us squits in Maine B his punishment log, in 1990 or 91. KHG was a stickler for doing things by the book and so it certainly would not surprise me to discover that this was a document of his own invention, and not a requirement that other housemasters followed. Nonetheless, I have two recollections from this. First, I am sure he said that caning was phased out prior to the ban on on the slipper. But more importantly I also remember that the last entry in his log was some years prior to us joining. It seemed like an age before at the time but ~ 1986 seems about right. The main point though is that slippering was certainly considered by some housemasters to be against the rules by the early 90's.

I left LHB at the end of my LE so 84? and it was rare by then (non existent in senior house), i seem to remember it only being from pretty serious anti social acts such as stealing, general misdemeanors etc were dealt with by junior house monitors in the form of house drills (several laps of a loop from LHB down to the lake along to main gate and back up done pre breakfast and refereed by one of those UF on a bicycle). In those days MaB under Grimshaw was definitely the most regimented jnr house with a morning shoe inspection still - LHB stopped that when morning marching into breakfast stopped

wurzel wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:37 pm In those days MaB under Grimshaw was definitely the most regimented jnr house with a morning shoe inspection still - LHB stopped that when morning marching into breakfast stopped

Shoe inspection was still going strong when Grimshaw left in 1991/2!!

graham wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:07 pm

wurzel wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:37 pm In those days MaB under Grimshaw was definitely the most regimented jnr house with a morning shoe inspection still - LHB stopped that when morning marching into breakfast stopped

Shoe inspection was still going strong when Grimshaw left in 1991/2!!

I think shoe inspection was still being done in Maine b for 3 years after he left.

As for corporal punishment, I certainly heard of no instances of it whilst I was at ch - 92-99

Hello, I am not sure if you have already spoken to the Council. I was at CH 83-90 and in 2010 went back for the 20 year reunion. A bunch of us were shown around a Grecian's house by Neil Fleming, during which I became aware that he was talking about a teacher (one of the ones already convicted) and his grooming of girls at CH. I remember Neil Fleming said something along the lines of 'there was an older girl and when she left, he started grooming the younger one, and that he was aware it was happening 'but there was no whistleblowing in those days, so what could you do'. I regret to this day that I didn't challenge him on it. But he knew, and he was quite happy to tell a bunch of us that he knew, and he clearly didn't see anything wrong with the choice he made. And nor did Cairncross, Sillett and Poulton it seems, after the evidence in the court case.

So yes, they knew.

Thank you for speaking to the Council. I hope the school understand why people are angry with the management team at the time. And more, I truly hope that everyone who went through this and who has been brave enough to go through it all again for the court case find some peace.

Its staggering, Im really lost for words

thatfrankie wrote: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:49 am Hello, I am not sure if you have already spoken to the Council. I was at CH 83-90 and in 2010 went back for the 20 year reunion. A bunch of us were shown around a Grecian's house by Neil Fleming, during which I became aware that he was talking about a teacher (one of the ones already convicted) and his grooming of girls at CH. I remember Neil Fleming said something along the lines of 'there was an older girl and when she left, he started grooming the younger one, and that he was aware it was happening 'but there was no whistleblowing in those days, so what could you do'. I regret to this day that I didn't challenge him on it. But he knew, and he was quite happy to tell a bunch of us that he knew, and he clearly didn't see anything wrong with the choice he made. And nor did Cairncross, Sillett and Poulton it seems, after the evidence in the court case.

So yes, they knew.

Thank you for speaking to the Council. I hope the school understand why people are angry with the management team at the time. And more, I truly hope that everyone who went through this and who has been brave enough to go through it all again for the court case find some peace.

Wow. Thank you for sharing this observation, never easy.. Would you be prepared to send that information to the Police (I can supply contact details if needed) and to Simon Reid? It is important.