Unofficial Christ's Hospital Forum

In the "Body and Soul" section of the Times yesterday -

"Back to baby school - can training to be a mother prepare you for the real thing?"

It struck me that I simply hadn't been worried enough! I re-married at 28, and had three children in rapid sucession. I had had no experience of looking after babies at all - having been the "mistake" of much older parents!

But Patricia Carswell, a professional coach specialising in motherhood has set up a new course exploring the effect that motherhood has on a woman's sense of identity.

Can anyone say that having children affected them in this way? After reading the article, I felt rather relieved that I hadn't suffered from all the anxieties this expert was describing. Admittedly, my children were wonderfully healthy, slept all night, ate all sorts of food, and, as I was armed only with the M & S Book of Baby Care, I didn't notice many of the traditional ailments (teething, colic) that babies are suppose to have.

Therefore I felt perfectly adequate as a mother!

But there was a slight "inadequacy" problem. It was other mothers! When queueing, at toddler group/playschool and eventually school, I found that other mothers upstaged each other relentlessly. I was no good at competitive motherhood. Some mothers wouldn't speak to me because I was "too posh", others because I wasn't posh enough, others again because I didn't look right. Eventually I found some friends, but found the non-speakers difficult.

So! should women train for motherhood, articulate our uncertainties, consider emotional issues in advance, express concern about changing body image and worry about what style of parenting to adopt?

Munch

Angela Woodford wrote:In the "Body and Soul" section of the Times yesterday -

"Back to baby school - can training to be a mother prepare you for the real thing?"

It struck me that I simply hadn't been worried enough! I re-married at 28, and had three children in rapid sucession. I had had no experience of looking after babies at all - having been the "mistake" of much older parents!

But Patricia Carswell, a professional coach specialising in motherhood has set up a new course exploring the effect that motherhood has on a woman's sense of identity.

Can anyone say that having children affected them in this way? After reading the article, I felt rather relieved that I hadn't suffered from all the anxieties this expert was describing. Admittedly, my children were wonderfully healthy, slept all night, ate all sorts of food, and, as I was armed only with the M & S Book of Baby Care, I didn't notice many of the traditional ailments (teething, colic) that babies are suppose to have.

Therefore I felt perfectly adequate as a mother!

But there was a slight "inadequacy" problem. It was other mothers! When queueing, at toddler group/playschool and eventually school, I found that other mothers upstaged each other relentlessly. I was no good at competitive motherhood. Some mothers wouldn't speak to me because I was "too posh", others because I wasn't posh enough, others again because I didn't look right. Eventually I found some friends, but found the non-speakers difficult.

So! should women train for motherhood, articulate our uncertainties, consider emotional issues in advance, express concern about changing body image and worry about what style of parenting to adopt?

Munch

I'm not qualified (for obvious reasons!) to say too much about motherhood specifics.

A general observation though is that the species has survived for centuries without any concept of "training" or whatever for motherhood. I think historically women followed instinct and consulted their own mothers or other older relatives from the extended family if they ran into difficulty.

Maybe the concept of "Baby School" has arisen because there are many more single mothers without any form of family support network. I'm getting into specifics now though!

I agree with both of you, from a professional and personal point of view.

I (obviously) knew how to look after a small baby (though not for 24/7) but after 10 days I was as adrift as anyone else so I joined the NCT but then moved when #1 son was 9 weeks old. Health visitor Mum was very helpful though 100 miles away.

Apart from mothers and daughters being miles apart nowadays, "normal" Mums and babies are shunted out of hospital within 24 hours and even Mums who have had C-sections go home after 3 days.

When I was training 30 years ago first time Mums stayed in a week, got some sleep and some advice on bathing, feeding etc.

I think if I had read any of these tomes I would have been put off the whole idea!! As Mary has said, 30+ years ago first time Mums stayed in hospital for a whole week - as I did. Yet being left alone with that precious scrap of humanity after that was frightening! We were in Leeds, Mother was working in a school miles away in Sussex. I think I felt more alone that at almost any other time in my life.

Having survived the first few days, the next 20+ years were plain sailing, however nobody prepared either of us for what the next few years would bring. Currently we have one son at home working for minimum wage during the tourist season, having come through several bouts of depression. The other is nearly incommunicado near Aberdeen. Each son has given us many hours of heartbreak since they graduated - and some of sheer pleasure but sadly at the moment the former outweighs the latter.

Left hospital with my five day old daughter, was driven to New Plymouth airport by a friend, and then Jess and I flew to Whangarei to a house I had never seen. Martin had left two days earlier to drive up with dog, cat and boat. The furniture had left the day after Jess was born, arrived the day before we did, and Martin had arranged everything almost exactly as it had been in the house we had left. Nice, but a little freaky

So, there I was, 15,000 km or so away from any family and about 800 km from any friends. Well, 800 km away from anyone I knew, apart from Martin and Jess.

I joined a Breastfeeding Mothers group (as one does), and a few of us set up a Parents Group. I took Jess to Play Group. Gradually I began to develop a group of acquaintainces, none of whom became true friends, but we only stayed in Whangarei for two years. The house was put on the market the day Mitch was born, and we moved to Oz when he was four months old.

I agree with Munch about other mothers sometimes being the worst critics. There were several matrons at the Mothers Group, who came along to support and encourage us newbies. Yeah, right. 'Oh, my child NEVER did that' - intentionally or otherwise giving the impression that the only reason anything that concerned us was happening was because we were so bl&&dy useless at this maternal lark.

I also, based solely on personal experience, cannot recommend Midwives who have not given birth. 'How the bl&&dy hell do you know that it doesn't hurt, you unsympathetic old bag???????????????????' Then there was the charmer who I went to in tears one Friday afternoon. Jess had started projectile vomiting. In my heart I knew that it was a reaction to cow milk proteins, but I just needed a professional to advise and confirm. We turned up, clean and tidy, and Jess vomited all over me while we were waiting to be seen. I dissolved into tears, expected tea and sympathy, and got a 'Oh for heaven's sake, it's just a little vomit. Go and clean yourself up'. She didn't even hold Jess for me as I scrubbed my sweatshirt.

Despite my lack of skills and total lack of family support (due to location, not to their lack of concern) we survived. I am in the process of framing the Mother's Day card I received from Mitch (6'3" surfie, living on the Gold Coast with his girlfriend), which arrived 3 days late, and depicts a cartoon kitten in the branches of a tree - head thrown back and mouth open, yelling 'Muuuuuuuuuuuuum!'. Very appropriate, I thought

Jess bought me a bunch of lilies (asiatic, not the orientals which make me sneeze) on her way home from a horse show. The friend she had been strapping for dropped her at the end of the road, rather than try to negotiate the driveway with horse float in tow, so Jess cut up through the paddock, and the lilies were given serious consideration by her younger horse. I guess a bit of horse dribble never hurt anyone, and the teeth marks added to the character of the flowers.

I hate to think I was a better midwife after giving birth. James was a long hard push but I had an epidural (for pre-eclampsia) and the twins I just coughed out (also with an epidural for pre-eclampsia) but what if the midwife was one of those lucky women where labour doesn't hurt, she would be wondering why you are making so much fuss.

A good midwife is a good midwife, having given birth or not.

I trained with 2 African nuns!! One was an excellent midwife, the other was totally crap, as a midwife and a person.

http://timesonline.typepad.com/alphamummy/

Here is the link to the page with the article - plus some other interesting stuff.

Im not as yet qualified to say but i do think......

that nowadays there is so much placed upon reading about it all, planning for every eventuality and what could happen that mum's and dad's are almost expecting something to go wrong and may think it has because their child may get ill alot-something that is probably through no fault of theirs, or because they didnt do something a book said
Now with all the gadgets you can get such as heart monitors for when they are in a cot no wonder parents get more stressed-its like they are pre empting something.

My mum had me at 23 and 23mths later my twin brother and sister were born, she had 3 of us under the age of two and just go on with it, we went to playschool a couple of afternoons/mornings a week at the age of 3. We all had our moments of not sleeping, being fussy eaters but who doesnt, we are now three grown up well rounded children!

Well rounded grown up children?????

I felt inspired to get out that dear old M & S Baby Care Book for a nostalgic read. There it all was - with soft focus pix of radiant mothers with 80s perms. Aah!

When I had baby no 2, my sister, 20 years older than I, came to stay for a few days. I love my sister dearly, but must admit that a) she is very illness orientated and b) she always knows best, and by the time she had pointed out everything that might go wrong, I began to feel much more worried about motherhood, and, I'm ashamed to say, I felt a sneaky relief when she went back home to Bristol and I and the Baby Book could get on with things again.

Looking again at that Times article, I feel that it is aimed particularly at women in their thirties and even forties who have put motherhood on hold for a while, approaching it almost as a project which they have to get exactly right.

I can remember dimly when anyone having a first baby over (??)26? 27? had "Elderly Primigravida" written on their notes! I'm all for having a baby at the time most suitable for an individual, but feel it puts the balance of a family slightly off - the child of a late-in-life mother possibly can't have a long relationship with grandparents.

Please excuse this personal opinion, any Forum reader who feels differently!

My parents had me by mistake at 45 - I've only got a very dim memory of one ancient grandmother! And I was an aunt myself at the age of 5.

And BTW I should like an enormous Motherhood Medal, encrusted with the glittering gemstones of her choice, to be awarded to Caroline for flying to a new home in a strange place with a five day old baby. Impressed!!

Love, Munch

I have always been amazed, indeed horrified, that the most important job we will ever do in life ( e.g. internal growth, birth, nurture and guidance of another human being) in the only one for which we, generally, receive no training whatsoever ( compare this with the countless hours required to drive a car...) - once we are gravid, we are supposed to know instinctively how to mother - and if the only advice you DO recieve comes from those who also got it wrong ( suivez mon regard...) , then you are definitely up the creek, and all mothers should get complimentary Prozac for life !

I can still remember the terror I felt during the first birth ( thank you, the incompetent midwife who "prepared" me - although another midwife, who did know what she was doing, probably saved my son's life during the birth itself), and the innumerable mistakes I certainly made with my son whilst I was learning my job - I did my first week with him in the Maternity, but there is only so much you can learn in that time, and then it's just you and the frightening little bundle. Laura probably got a much better mother than poor Bas did, as you tend to know what you are doing the second time around - which may explain why my son no longer talks to me....

Of course, I read all sorts of books, but found they were of very little use at 3.am with a crying baby. My sanity ( and possibly my son's wellbeing) was saved when my Mother took me down to Alicante and I found the most marvellous 60+ paediatrician - who had never given birth himself or read all the super new books, but had overseen the infancy of about 30.000 children ....which proves that experience wins out every time !

My daughter says that she is never having children!

My sister had trained as a nursery nurse (NNEB as was, now an NVQ in childcare) and when my eldest was being particularly 'sparky' she would give me the benefit of her 'wisdom'. My mother (the Health Visitor with 4 children) would wisely say nothing.

My sister's first was a horror, much worse than mine and I wisely said nothing. Both her's and mine are now delightful, polite, well-behaved young adults. (their grandmother thinks so anyway)

My Grand-Son failed to see the joke when he asked me if I knew when Mother's Day was, and I replied, "Approximately nine months after Fathers Day !"

An OB from Hertford (not this one, thank God) had her first child at 46, and another 2 years later.

midget wrote:An OB from Hertford (not this one, thank God) had her first child at 46, and another 2 years later.

One of my second cousins (or first cousin once removed, or whatever: she's Mum's cousin, but closer in age to myself than to Mum) had her two at much the same age as that OB, and with the two year gap. In addition, she is married to one of her first cousins.

Haven't met the offspring, so can't comment on the possible folly of her ways.