Unofficial Christ's Hospital Forum

and what would happen to the world population if it were true?

"if we could eradicate high blood pressure and high cholesterol, and wipe out cigarette smoking, heart disease would be almost unheard of."

from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/f ... 253722.stm

We have heard all sorts of stories like "any alcoholic beverage is a killer" then "you can have 15/22 units a week provided .................. and provided ........... " with relative impunity and then "red wine is good for you" and then "only certain red wines are not dangerous" ad infinitum.

With the introduction of pennicillin and its derivatives man was supposed to be able to lead an illness free life and live to be 150 but look what has happened; we have had this miracle medicine and if we have surgery we are at increased risk of resistant bugs and a nasty death.

My wife has had some tests; the doctor panicked and my wife saw an NHS specialist 4 days later. (well, this has been repeated several times over the past 4 years but the outcome was always effectively the same). Locum consultant: "There is no agreed risk level - I use a round figure of 100 and if she is above that for 3 months then we will operate.". Consultant back from illness:" it is well over 100 but I'm not worried. No further tests needed, No follow-up". My wife had the tests done in France where the risk level is viewed as being 140; either she has fatal liver disease or she doesn't; the quacks can't agree.

The question has to be "what is a danger level?" What is "high blood pressure?". I get on well with my doctor so I was able to play games with him; thanks to Dr Scott in the CH sicker I could achieve a blood pressure of 160 without exercise and a few minutes later the doctor read it a second time as 119.

High cholesterol? In the UK my wife's level was 8.8 (which is claimed to potentially fatal) but a laboratory test here in France shows it as 4.4 on the same test. My own was found to be 5.8 in France and my UK doctor (8 months ago) reckons that that level is nothing to be worried about and nothing should be done to reduce it. What is high? - the UK Government says 4.0 but doesn't bother to test anyone.

I take the view that what is written in St Peter's book cannot be changed so such studies only serve to to worry us to death; perhaps we would be happier and more healthy if such studies were not carried out.

As for smoking, I never had so many illnesses in the 50 odd years before I stopped smoking - I reckon the tar killed all the germs before they could get to me.

Going back to the original quote, AFAIR heart disease is not the world's commonest killer. I seem to recall that the Plasmodium bugs affecting the liver, kidneys or brain is the Styx Ferryman's greatest friend.

After that rant (and what comes out of the back end of a male cow) I'll get my coat

I'm afraid that as Gordon 'Chubby' Brown's move into No 10 coincided with the wonderful Nanny-State's further attack on the tobacco user, I have just become even more bl00dy minded.

I'll stop smoking in public when all combustion engine vehicles are banned in public !

and what would happen to the world population if it were true?

We'd all die of something else.


My wife has had some tests; the doctor panicked and my wife saw an NHS specialist 4 days later. (well, this has been repeated several times over the past 4 years but the outcome was always effectively the same). Locum consultant: "There is no agreed risk level - I use a round figure of 100 and if she is above that for 3 months then we will operate.". Consultant back from illness:" it is well over 100 but I'm not worried. No further tests needed, No follow-up". My wife had the tests done in France where the risk level is viewed as being 140; either she has fatal liver disease or she doesn't; the quacks can't agree.


140 whats? One of her liver enzymes, or her blood pressure?


High cholesterol? In the UK my wife's level was 8.8 (which is claimed to potentially fatal) but a laboratory test here in France shows it as 4.4 on the same test. My own was found to be 5.8 in France and my UK doctor (8 months ago) reckons that that level is nothing to be worried about and nothing should be done to reduce it. What is high? - the UK Government says 4.0 but doesn't bother to test anyone.


Do the labs definitely use the same test and the same analyser to perform the test? Results need to be related to the 'normal' range for the particular lab that performed the test.
When I first worked in an Australian path lab (about 20 years ago), the normal range for Cholesterol was 8.8, then it was dropped to 6.5, now anything above 5.5 is considered to be 'high'. 4.0 sounds remarkably low - assuming that we are talking the same units of measurement, and the same 'normal' range.


As for smoking, I never had so many illnesses in the 50 odd years before I stopped smoking - I reckon the tar killed all the germs before they could get to me.


Or, possibly, your 50 year older immune system, plus the tar, nicotine, etc, damage are letting you down?

Going back to the original quote, AFAIR heart disease is not the world's commonest killer. I seem to recall that the Plasmodium bugs affecting the liver, kidneys or brain is the Styx Ferryman's greatest friend.

New one on me - but not claiming that it is not correct.

Personally, I gave up all testing, include blood pressure & cholesterol measurements, years ago, as I found it only induced obsessive hypochondria... I do have one full blood work-up about every 6-8 years, and they never find anything interesting.

Working on a combination of " if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and "mektoub" philosophies, I find that I tick along quite nicely, thank you, by listening to my body and adapting food/drink to suit, and my medicine cabinet now only contains paracetamol and carisoprodol - both for fibromyalgia, which can't be cured anyway.

Perhaps having a doctor for a father means that I don't trust the profession very much...rather too many sorcerer's apprentices about.

B.
(yes, I know that I am becoming a reactionary in my old age... )[/i]

oh, and I did give up smoking, but not because Nanny told me that it was bad for me, but because I refused to fund the Government when I moved back to the UK !

Actually you cant win.

Eldest daughter, (the youth footy-coach), who is type 1 diabetic gave up smoking over a year ago and after breaking her leg training the Dorking Girls promptly put on a stone and a half in weight.

RESULT ???

On her recent diabetes check she was told to lose weight.

You couldn't make it up, could yer ?

sejintenej wrote:and what would happen to the world population if it were true?

We'd all die of something else.

Whilst I can accept that bald statement, if death from heart disease were taken out of the equation the average life span would increase substantially thus causing world overcrowding to occur even quicker. Perhaps starvation would become even more common.

sejintenej wrote:My wife has had some tests; the doctor panicked and my wife saw an NHS specialist 4 days later. (well, this has been repeated several times over the past 4 years but the outcome was always effectively the same). Locum consultant: "There is no agreed risk level - I use a round figure of 100 and if she is above that for 3 months then we will operate.". Consultant back from illness:" it is well over 100 but I'm not worried. No further tests needed, No follow-up". My wife had the tests done in France where the risk level is viewed as being 140; either she has fatal liver disease or she doesn't; the quacks can't agree.


140 whats? One of her liver enzymes, or her blood pressure?

The doctor simply called it "liver function". There are three results, one of which is the 40 ("normal") and 100/140 ("high limit"). the point I was trying to make is that even the medical profession doesn't know what is normal. BTW - the initial immediate suspected diagnosis was liver cancer.

sejintenej wrote:High cholesterol? In the UK my wife's level was 8.8 (which is claimed to potentially fatal) but a laboratory test here in France shows it as 4.4 on the same test. My own was found to be 5.8 in France and my UK doctor (8 months ago) reckons that that level is nothing to be worried about and nothing should be done to reduce it. What is high? - the UK Government says 4.0 but doesn't bother to test anyone.


Do the labs definitely use the same test and the same analyser to perform the test? Results need to be related to the 'normal' range for the particular lab that performed the test.
When I first worked in an Australian path lab (about 20 years ago), the normal range for Cholesterol was 8.8, then it was dropped to 6.5, now anything above 5.5 is considered to be 'high'. 4.0 sounds remarkably low - assuming that we are talking the same units of measurement, and the same 'normal' range.

Yes; the French lab gives two separate results for each of the three tests, one of which is a direct parallel to the UK tests plus one measure for the fourth which is the same measure as in the UK. According to our UK doctor a measure of over 7.6 and a particular reading for one of the others is a strong suggestion of a hereditary cause. He received a copy of the French test results and was happy to use the results.
The UK used to find a higher level acceptable and has only in very recent years dropped the max acceptable level to 4.

sejintenej wrote:As for smoking, I never had so many illnesses in the 50 odd years before I stopped smoking - I reckon the tar killed all the germs before they could get to me.


Or, possibly, your 50 year older immune system, plus the tar, nicotine, etc, damage are letting you down?

Perhaps but interesting that it cut in when I stopped smoking.

sejintenej wrote:Going back to the original quote, AFAIR heart disease is not the world's commonest killer. I seem to recall that the Plasmodium bugs affecting the liver, kidneys or brain is the Styx Ferryman's greatest friend.

New one on me - but not claiming that it is not correct.

Common name is malaria (which actually comes in several varieties). I hear that it has been found to have been transmitted in the Thames Valley.

J.R. wrote:Actually you cant win.

Eldest daughter, (the youth footy-coach), who is type 1 diabetic gave up smoking over a year ago and after breaking her leg training the Dorking Girls promptly put on a stone and a half in weight.

RESULT ???

On her recent diabetes check she was told to lose weight.

You couldn't make it up, could yer ?

An increase in weight on giving up smoking seems to be a pretty common reaction. I suspect that peeps start eating sweets / chocolate as a nicotine substitute. In my own case I seemed to run on nervous energy - now I simply don't have the energy (or the sweets )

I love salt in food, and refuse to give it up! I tried a salt substitute recently, but didn't like it. You could wade through my blood pressure and not get your ankles wet. 110/70 - fine.

Munch

Angela Woodford wrote:I love salt in food, and refuse to give it up!

I never use salt - not added to cooked food or when cooking. I went out for an all you can eat Chinese/Indian/Thai etc on Monday night and one of my colleagues drowned her plate in salt - I couldn't even contemplate putting salt on a Chinese/Indian etc

I love these discussions because like most men, I don't go to the doctor until it is really not working, by which time it is probably too late, but then I assume they know what they are doing and take the medicine. Whereas my wife seems to go to the doctor for the slightest thing and then worries forever that the treatment is not right.
Ever since they started taking my blood pressure it has been high, until a specialist in Buenos Aires observed that I had "clinical" blood pressure, (goes up at the mere thought that it was being taken), but that it was pretty normal.
I work on the basis that both parents, 2 grandparents and 4 uncles all reached 80. The 2 dead grandparents died of TB and and incorrectly treated asthma attack (according to my SRN mother who read his diary where he wrote down his treatment) and the other uncle had a stroke after an incredibly active life, considering he had a thyroid condition.
On that basis I expect to reach 80, by which time the state of my brain is my main worry.
Never do anything in excess and enjoy what you do is my motto.
As I read somewhere "Death is nature's way to tell you to slow down"

jhopgood wrote:I love these discussions because like most men, I don't go to the doctor until it is really not working, by which time it is probably too late, but then I assume they know what they are doing and take the medicine. Whereas my wife seems to go to the doctor for the slightest thing and then worries forever that the treatment is not right.
Ever since they started taking my blood pressure it has been high, until a specialist in Buenos Aires observed that I had "clinical" blood pressure, (goes up at the mere thought that it was being taken), but that it was pretty normal.
I work on the basis that both parents, 2 grandparents and 4 uncles all reached 80. The 2 dead grandparents died of TB and and incorrectly treated asthma attack (according to my SRN mother who read his diary where he wrote down his treatment) and the other uncle had a stroke after an incredibly active life, considering he had a thyroid condition.
On that basis I expect to reach 80, by which time the state of my brain is my main worry.
Never do anything in excess and enjoy what you do is my motto.
As I read somewhere "Death is nature's way to tell you to slow down"

....then there are the 2 great head-stone epitaphs by the late, and very great Sir Spike Milligooon !

"See ? I told you I was ill !"

and

"I demand a second opinion !"

J.R. wrote:Actually you cant win.

Eldest daughter, (the youth footy-coach), who is type 1 diabetic gave up smoking over a year ago and after breaking her leg training the Dorking Girls promptly put on a stone and a half in weight.

RESULT ???

On her recent diabetes check she was told to lose weight.

You couldn't make it up, could yer ?

A stone a month loss do? Just don't follow

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm_he ... _page.html

J.R. wrote:

jhopgood wrote:I love these discussions because like most men, I don't go to the doctor until it is really not working, by which time it is probably too late, but then I assume they know what they are doing and take the medicine. Whereas my wife seems to go to the doctor for the slightest thing and then worries forever that the treatment is not right.
Ever since they started taking my blood pressure it has been high, until a specialist in Buenos Aires observed that I had "clinical" blood pressure, (goes up at the mere thought that it was being taken), but that it was pretty normal.
I work on the basis that both parents, 2 grandparents and 4 uncles all reached 80. The 2 dead grandparents died of TB and and incorrectly treated asthma attack (according to my SRN mother who read his diary where he wrote down his treatment) and the other uncle had a stroke after an incredibly active life, considering he had a thyroid condition.
On that basis I expect to reach 80, by which time the state of my brain is my main worry.
Never do anything in excess and enjoy what you do is my motto.
As I read somewhere "Death is nature's way to tell you to slow down"

....then there are the 2 great head-stone epitaphs by the late, and very great Sir Spike Milligooon !

"See ? I told you I was ill !"

and

"I demand a second opinion !"

Only the first is actually on his headstone, and it is written in Gaelic.