Unofficial Christ's Hospital Forum

I await Josh's comments with bated breath.

I don't see why he should be the slightest bit interested, it seems quite reasonable to me if there is a contract.

I notice Alan has posted JR type puns at the bottom.

The film company can certainly afford to pay after what the films grossed !

Good. As long as a) they're not sueing me for the blatant Tolk references in Llanwyds's Saga (two chapters of which are now complete, for those interested) and b) they let them make the Hobbit.

Preferably with Peter Jackson in charge, and without:

- Frodo (not born!!!)
- Aragorn (not involved)
- Arwen (I might boycott the film if they put her in)

And as long as they don't childrenise it too much. That's what I don't like about the book - both good and evil are undercut, and it clashes with the sorrowful nature of the rest of the Works.

Why were the later volumes never published - were they unfinished? If so, they should stay that way surely?

Eruresto wrote: - Aragorn (not involved)

Now i love the LOTR films and think they are absolute masterpieces but Aragon was fantastic-what a hottie!

Heh-hem!

Regarding unfinished Tolkien Material:

During Tolkien's lifetime, only two sets of Eahic (relating to Ea - the world that Is) material were published. These were the novels that we know of as The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. However, since his death in 1973, an extraordinarily large amount of his work has been published posthumously. J.R.R. Tolkien appointed his second son, Christopher, to be his literary heir, and after his father's death, Christopher Tolkien brought out, as it were, all the unfinished material, and started organising it - no mean feat when you consider that much of this was in the form of notebooks and scribbled margins. As a result of this labour (one might even call it an opus, given its magnitude), Christopher Tolkien has had published:

- The Silmarillion
- Unfinished Tales
- The Children of Hurin
- The Histories of Middle-Earth

The Silmarillion was in many ways the Old Testament of the Eahic Literature. It contained a lot of history, detailing the creation, the fall, and the early wars against Morgoth. It was hope by JRRT that this set of histories, though it had priorly been rarely stationary in its evolution, would be published as a single volume together with the Lord of the Rings, and Allen & Unwin's refusal almost cost us LotR altogether.

Unfinished Tales were, for the most part, small stories to supply extra details to already known tales. For example, we read in LotR of the alliance of Gondor and Rohan; "Cirion and Eorl" tells us how it came about. Isildur was killed by orcs: "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" explains. Also contained are three "essays", on The Palantiri, The Istari, and the Druedain.

The Children of Hurin, the most recent publication, details the tragic life of the three children of Hurin son of Hador, whose family were cursed by Morgoth when Hurin, a captive, defied Morgoth to his face. It is, at times, a real heartbreaker, and I drew quite heavily on it for Llanwyd's Saga. It is, however, important to read it deliberately and with a purpose, lest one become disappointed (the first paragraph is identical to the opening of its rendition in UT, and much else is practically the same).

The Histories of Middle-Earth are, for the most part, early versions of later tales. Examples include the Tale of Tinuviel and the early versions of the first chapters of FotR, in which we see the story, become ever darker and more dangerous as Tolkien develops it into what we know now - a story almost unrecognisable from the early drafts of Bingo Baggins and a hobbit named Trotter (later Aragorn, Son of Arathorn, Son of Arador, Telcontar, Elessar etc.).


As for unpublished material, well: there is quite possibly more that we are yet to see. There have been hints in the Silmarillion that the Narn I Hin Hurin (The Tale of the Children of Hurin) was longest of the Lays of Beleriand, second only to the Lay of Leithian, the great love story of the mortal man Beren and the immortal Luthien. Might it be published? I hope so.
There is also hope for a full-length tale of the Lay of Earendil, who set out to plead the case of Men and Elves to the Valar in the Undying Lands, thus bringing about the War of Wrath. It is a mighty tale!!!


Yours,

Joshua R. Tolkien

No, that wouldn't work - it'd be like trying to do the entire Old Testament in one film.

I reckon they ought to do either The Big Tales (CoH, B&L and Earendil), or:

THE WAR OF THE JEWELS

Film 1: Stealing of the Jewels, Kinslaying, up to the siege of Angband
Film 2: BEREN & LUTHIEN/ OF TURIN TURAMBAR
Film 3: Of the fall of Gondolin onwards.

To be honest, I'm not sure they could get the rest in. That said, I've always wanted to do a concert/play based on the Ainulindale - with an orchestra in the orchestra pit, and no actors on stage - all the action done with lights..

Shame I'm not musical.

Eruresto wrote:Heh-hem!

Regarding unfinished Tolkien Material:

During Tolkien's lifetime, only two sets of Eahic (relating to Ea - the world that Is) material were published. These were the novels that we know of as The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. However, since his death in 1973, an extraordinarily large amount of his work has been published posthumously. J.R.R. Tolkien appointed his second son, Christopher, to be his literary heir, and after his father's death, Christopher Tolkien brought out, as it were, all the unfinished material, and started organising it - no mean feat when you consider that much of this was in the form of notebooks and scribbled margins. As a result of this labour (one might even call it an opus, given its magnitude), Christopher Tolkien has had published:

- The Silmarillion
- Unfinished Tales
- The Children of Hurin
- The Histories of Middle-Earth

The Silmarillion was in many ways the Old Testament of the Eahic Literature. It contained a lot of history, detailing the creation, the fall, and the early wars against Morgoth. It was hope by JRRT that this set of histories, though it had priorly been rarely stationary in its evolution, would be published as a single volume together with the Lord of the Rings, and Allen & Unwin's refusal almost cost us LotR altogether.

Unfinished Tales were, for the most part, small stories to supply extra details to already known tales. For example, we read in LotR of the alliance of Gondor and Rohan; "Cirion and Eorl" tells us how it came about. Isildur was killed by orcs: "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" explains. Also contained are three "essays", on The Palantiri, The Istari, and the Druedain.

The Children of Hurin, the most recent publication, details the tragic life of the three children of Hurin son of Hador, whose family were cursed by Morgoth when Hurin, a captive, defied Morgoth to his face. It is, at times, a real heartbreaker, and I drew quite heavily on it for Llanwyd's Saga. It is, however, important to read it deliberately and with a purpose, lest one become disappointed (the first paragraph is identical to the opening of its rendition in UT, and much else is practically the same).

The Histories of Middle-Earth are, for the most part, early versions of later tales. Examples include the Tale of Tinuviel and the early versions of the first chapters of FotR, in which we see the story, become ever darker and more dangerous as Tolkien develops it into what we know now - a story almost unrecognisable from the early drafts of Bingo Baggins and a hobbit named Trotter (later Aragorn, Son of Arathorn, Son of Arador, Telcontar, Elessar etc.).


As for unpublished material, well: there is quite possibly more that we are yet to see. There have been hints in the Silmarillion that the Narn I Hin Hurin (The Tale of the Children of Hurin) was longest of the Lays of Beleriand, second only to the Lay of Leithian, the great love story of the mortal man Beren and the immortal Luthien. Might it be published? I hope so.
There is also hope for a full-length tale of the Lay of Earendil, who set out to plead the case of Men and Elves to the Valar in the Undying Lands, thus bringing about the War of Wrath. It is a mighty tale!!!


Yours,

Joshua R. Tolkien

Josh,

I learned a lot from that. Thanks.

Josh, I think you would get on very well with my younger son, or possibly a slightly younger version than the present version!

He first read The Silmarillion in three days, the middle one of those was his seventh birthday He has most of the published works of Tolkien pere & fils, and can cite stories in the same way you can!

Daymn! I've not even done the Silly cover to cover! Well, I did on audio book, but that's it. Still...(scrabbles around for anything to keep himself from slipping into inferiority)...

aha! Is he writing an essay about the figure of Tom Bombadil as Illuvatar in disguise?

Please don't tell me he is, or I'll have to play the trump card.

And if he speaks quenya as well, I'll cry.

Eruresto wrote: aha! Is he writing an essay about the figure of Tom Bombadil as Illuvatar in disguise?

Please don't tell me he is, or I'll have to play the trump card.

And if he speaks quenya as well, I'll cry.

He has discussed Tom Bombadil as Illuvatar many a time but he only intended to try to learn quenya and wrote out notes but gave up....

Alan - I've been meaning to say - I'm interested that you're familiar with Gerald Lord Berners as a composer! To me, he will always be the Lord Merlin of Nancy Mitford's Pursuit of Love and Love in a Cold Climate. The pigeons dyed in pastel colours! The whippets with diamonds around their furry necks! Lord Berners wrote loyally to Diana Mosley when newly detained in Holloway under regulation 18B, that he supposed she was already tunnelling under her cell with a teaspoon..

He must have taken eccentricity to sublime heights.

Angela

Good. My position as FPTS (Forumite Professor of Tolkien Studies) is still secure then.