Are we alone?

[huggermugger]

Actually have just been looking at the link posted by MidA15 which is the new "All About Money" leaflet that new/prospective parents are given & I happen to have the old one here.... that quotes the full cost of fees in 2004/05 (£17,900) so I guess that's when it was produced, but it was given to me when my Ds started two years ago. (I may be crap at figures but I'm good at filing.)

Here are some comparisons:
(I think the gross income examples aren't very helpful because the deductions given for Tax, NI & council tax water etc in the new leaflet remain the same as the old one but maybe I'm nit-picking)

So on the net assessed incomes & the contributions payable:
The nil band remains the same at below £7,499.
£7,500pa - Old: £150 New: £232
£12,500: £1,200 - £1,324
£20,000: £4,600 - £5,077
£30,000: £9,900 - £10,023
£35,000: £12,775 - £14,095
£43,651: £17,900 - £19,752 (2007/8 full fees)

Full fees rose 3.5% last year and 3% the year before that. Since 2004/05 they appear to have risen just over 14% (Full fees this year are £20,442). I suspect therein lies the problem.

My own contribution rose 16% last year, on an almost identical income.Couldn't understand that one at all. From this chart, it shows that over the last few years someone on an assessed income of £35k has seen a 10% rise in fees payable.

Something else to remember: make sure the water, council tax & insurance bills you put in are for the current year. the income figures should be last year's but the bills should be the current year's. Seems daft but it can make a significant difference.

As I said, it sounds really tough for some people and it does all need thinking about. I hope this helps; I have to say putting down the figures has been an eye opener for me. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm not, it's all very worrying & no wonder people are struggling - wages certainly haven't risen 10-14% in the last 4 years.

[ailurophile]

Huggermugger wrote

My own contribution rose 16% last year, on an almost identical income.Couldn't understand that one at all.

Presumably you've been caught in the same trap as we have, where the Foundation have re-defined what counts as 'income' to include your pension contribution. Or maybe they found some other 'justifiable' way to clobber you! Our contribution also rose by 16% last year, but our actual net income by about 1%. The 16% rise was only the first of three increments (designed to 'lessen the impact', ha ha!), so we face further big fee increases this year and next. And yes, it is tough; in fact, it's impossible!

How can parents be expected to commit to paying - for a potential seven years ahead - whatever the Foundation consider 'reasonable' when this figure appears totally arbitrary and can (and demonstrably does) increase out of all proportion to income. I still have the scale of contributions for 2001, when we first began to think about CH as an option. At that stage, a family with an assessed income of £30,000 would have been liable for fees of £7,400. Eight years later a family with that same income (worth considerably less today in real terms) would face fees of £10,023. These increases become even more unsustainable for those with two or more children in the school.

I can of course understand that the costs of running the school have increased enormously, and that full fees are necessarily going to increase over time. But the rising cost of living does not only hit the school; ordinary families are struggling too, and for those who calculated on accepting a place at CH for their child that they would just be able to afford the 'reasonable' assessed fees, a rise of 16% year on year is a huge and unsustainable burden. We simply cannot afford to keep our children at CH any longer, and I'm sure that many other families must be in the same situation. I wonder how many children will have their education disrupted by being withdrawn from the school before the Foundation recognises the impact of their increasing demands?

[huggermugger]

A boy in my DS house (Third Form) and his older sibling are leaving at the end of this term and apparently cost is being cited as the cause here too. To the best of my knowledge the parents are not on this forum so there's yet another family forced to make a very, very difficult choice.

I haven't been involved with CH long enough to know whether this is something that regularly and inevitably happens or whether withdrawals for economic reasons have accelerated recently.

[huggermugger]

I agree - but none of you have answered my original question, which was whether or not there is actually any way that CH could check the veracity of a declaration of income. If figures are declared they can be checked, but if they are not declared does the school have any legal means of confirming that income does not exist? I am not trying to stir up insurrection, honestly!

As part of the income statement which we have to fill in every year there are various statements which we have to sign to say we agree with. They state that "any deliberate misstatement of my financal position may jeopardise the child's place at the School", "The trustees are liable to withdraw their financial support should there be evidence of undisclosed sources of income" and "A random selection of parents will receive a home visit by a representative of Christ's Hospital. Parents are required to accept the possibility of such a visit."

All of which clearly leave you liable to possible investigation and likely repayment of any assistance fraudulently claimed by misstating income.

[ailurophile]

A boy in my DS house (Third Form) and his older sibling are leaving at the end of this term and apparently cost is being cited as the cause here too. To the best of my knowledge the parents are not on this forum so there's yet another family forced to make a very, very difficult choice.

I haven't been involved with CH long enough to know whether this is something that regularly and inevitably happens or whether withdrawals for economic reasons have accelerated recently.

Maybe some of the OBs can comment on this? Certainly it is only within the last year or so that my children seem to have been aware that some of their peers are having to leave school for financial reasons.

The leaflet 'All About Money' states "We strive to make boarding education affordable for parents. The contribution you would be asked to make is the amount the Foundation considers parents can reasonably afford, provided they value education highly and put it near the top of their spending priorities."

When CH identify a pupil as being in need of the education that the school can provide - a need that can be social, financial or educational - they offer parents a contract. On their side, the parents must commit to paying whatever the foundation consider is a ‘reasonable’ means-tested fee; surely there should be some sort of reciprocal commitment from the Foundation to keep this fee at a reasonable level. It appears that in an increasing number of cases they are demonstrably failing in this, to the point where the parents can no longer afford to fulfil their side of the bargain and have no choice but to withdraw their child from the school. This seems to me to show a very worrying lack of concern for the welfare of the child; it is hard indeed to see how any of the parties involved, including the school, can benefit from such an unhappy situation. Speaking from experience I can only say that it is a devastating choice for the families and particularly for the children affected.

[ailurophile]

Oh and out of interest, I don't seem to be able to find the leaflet 'All About Money', which I've just quoted from, as a link from the school website. I'm sure it was available to download until recently! Perhaps it has been decided that the contribution scale might frighten the horses, or is that just me being cynical...

[sejintenej]

One of the problems (and this applies to many other fields) is that "reasonable" is as defined by someone earning a totally unreasonable amount (ISTR over £100,000 being quoted) to that their understanding of "reasonable" is totally warped

You can't reasonably blame them - they are simply out of touch with the realities of average life

[englishangel]

Interestingly I was on Wikipedia yesterday and came upon this from a year ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Christ%27s_Hospital

Check the 'money' paragraph.

[lonelymom]

Check the 'money' paragraph.

[huggermugger]

Oh and out of interest, I don't seem to be able to find the leaflet 'All About Money', which I've just quoted from, as a link from the school website. I'm sure it was available to download until recently! Perhaps it has been decided that the contribution scale might frighten the horses, or is that just me being cynical...

Well, it's still accessible through the link posted by MidA15 on page one of this thread....

[lonelymom]

It's not on the CH website though, just a phone number to contact the Contributions Manager. Could it be because they are updating the information for this year?

[J.R.]

Our youngest daughter tried to get our Grand-Son into CH with help from the head of his former primary school.

Unfortunately he was just too late on the intake.

She then received a letter from the CH Office at Horsham asking if she was still interested if a place became available.

She needed to clarify a few points after having obtained all the relevant reports from Eddie's first year in Secondary school.

Two phone calls to Horsham resulted in her having to leave messages on the Office 'ansaphone', where she left her details, home and mobile phone-numbers.

To date, she has heard NOTHING, and the closure date has yet again passed.

There's organisation, partial organisation, and downright........

I give up !!!

'Nuff Said ??

[ailurophile]

David Brown wrote:

One of the problems (and this applies to many other fields) is that "reasonable" is as defined by someone earning a totally unreasonable amount (ISTR over £100,000 being quoted) to that their understanding of "reasonable" is totally warped

You can't reasonably blame them - they are simply out of touch with the realities of average life

Oh yes you can blame them! Open any recent newspaper and you'll find plenty of examples of blame being attached to overpaid fatcats in business and public service who have reaped the benefits of power while fighting shy of the responsibilities that go with it. Earning a fat salary is no excuse for being out of touch with the people whose lives are affected by your decisions, or for sticking your head in the sand and refusing to recognise the chaos in your wake!

I opened this thread in exasperation because we have met with blank refusal from the Foundation to so much as discuss the 'realities of average life', and I suppose I'm still secretly hoping that somewhere out there the powers that be are following this and might, just perhaps, be given pause for thought. Sadly in the meantime we are still having to look for another school for our beloved, bright, amazing children who are thriving and happy at CH. Knowing that there are other families facing the same heartbreaking decision does not make this any easier.

[lonelymom]

This may seem like an incredibly stupid question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Are there waiting lists for places at CH in each year? What I mean is, when people leave, for whatever reason, is there a child waiting to take up the place? Or are the places empty, meaning that the school is losing income from that place? I would guess that there is a waiting list for second form, maybe even third, but what about other years?

[Ajarn Philip]

Oh yes you can blame them! Open any recent newspaper and you'll find plenty of examples of blame being attached to overpaid fatcats in business and public service who have reaped the benefits of power while fighting shy of the responsibilities that go with it. Earning a fat salary is no excuse for being out of touch with the people whose lives are affected by your decisions, or for sticking your head in the sand and refusing to recognise the chaos in your wake!

I opened this thread in exasperation because we have met with blank refusal from the Foundation to so much as discuss the 'realities of average life', and I suppose I'm still secretly hoping that somewhere out there the powers that be are following this and might, just perhaps, be given pause for thought. Sadly in the meantime we are still having to look for another school for our beloved, bright, amazing children who are thriving and happy at CH. Knowing that there are other families facing the same heartbreaking decision does not make this any easier.

Great post, ailurophile. As an OB from the late 60s - early 70s I am only slowly coming to terms with what seems to be happening to CH (actually, that's probably the wrong phrase - I'm beginning to understand what's happening, but I don't think I'll be able to come to terms with it). I have no evidence whatsoever to back this up, but it seems to me that 30 years ago the school bent over backwards to help parents in financial difficulty. Judging by the comments on this forum, they seem to have reversed this policy by encouraging (or at least not discouraging) parents to remove their children.

I have no 'business sense' whatsoever, but that doesn't seem like good practice to me. I would love to hear some recent examples of compassion and generosity. Are there any? This is obviously not about the day-to-day standard of care and education provided by the staff, but the strategy of the 'powers that be'.

I do hope things work out for you and your children.