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Marmalade!
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:20 am
by Angela Woodford
Marmalade!
How do you like it?
Dark, chunky, gingery? Delicate clear jelly marmalade? Lime or grapefruit, mandarin, sweet orange or mixed fruit? What is your preferred preserve?
I've never made marmalade, and now I feel inspired to try. Researching the subject (history, method, recipes, odd additions to recipes) I've come across some fascinating variations; hastily bypassing the poor old Robertson's Golly.
My preserving pan has been scoured ready for action - by
HIM. He had used it for his own incineratory purposes! Horrors! It was time for my sternest reproofs.
Perhaps an OB has extensive experience in marmalade making? (Sudden thought - I remember that Bridget Jones succeeded in presenting her guests with a pudding of Blue Marmalade.)
I'd be thrilled with any tips, tastes and opinions!
Re: Marmalade!
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:33 pm
by MKM
I love marmalade, made with Seville oranges, and plenty of peel. Not just on toast - I like it stirred into plain yogurt. I sometimes make it, and find I never cut the peel fine enough - I think it swells up after the sugar is added.
But you may have missed the season for this year.
Re: Marmalade!
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:44 pm
by Ajarn Philip
Angela Woodford wrote: ...hastily bypassing the poor old Robertson's Golly.
Angela, you disappoint me. I won't take issue with your (questionable) choice of topic, but I must object to your denigration of Robertson and his Golly. We are not amused.
Re: Marmalade!
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:01 pm
by Angela Woodford
Stirred into plain yohurt is nice, Mary! Mmm. Yes, it's a pity there won't be as many Seville oranges now! According to Google it was a poor season anyway. But I can try with other varieties... I'm getting my favourite small knife re-sharpened to cut the peel of whatever it's-going-to-be to the required fineness. And I've been accumulating a supply of jamjars.
Oh... Philip! You know I'd really rather not be in your bad books!
I'm
sorry I'm feeling marmelady!
I didn't realise how sensitive you become over the politicisation of the Golly... I won't make any more pithy remarks now I'll be ex-pectin your horror
Sorry, OK?
Here's something from exploring the BBC
Food - I like this!
""Is it jam, or is it marmalade?" Ask a lawyer if you're unsure..."
Re: Marmalade!
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:22 pm
by J.R.
I adore standard chunky cut Seville orange marmalade.
Jan prefers ginger marmalade.
Re: Marmalade!
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:46 pm
by Ajarn Philip
Angela Woodford wrote:""Is it jam, or is it marmalade?" Ask a lawyer if you're unsure..."
Over here it is simply called orange jam, which seems quite sensible to me - is there a difference between preparing (for example) strawberry jam and marmalade (other then the obvious!)?
Angela, my little pot of strawberry jam with clotted cream and a scone, you could never be in my bad books!
It has just occurred to me to investigate the origin of the word 'marmalade' - I'll be right back...
Re: Marmalade!
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:51 pm
by Ajarn Philip
Ah, it seems to be 'one of those words...'
The best I could come up with at short notice is:
The first marmalade?
Stories about the origins of marmalade abound - some, inevitably, more believable than others. Food historians generally agree that the term 'marmalade' derives from the Portuguese word 'marmalade'. Marmalade was a solid paste made from cooked-down quinces and sugar, rather than the bittersweet preserve that we're familiar with. According to the history books, in 1524, Henry VIII received a gift of a 'box of marmalade', which was likely to have been the quince sweetmeat.
Mary Queen of Scots was one of the earliest fans of marmalade, it seems. It's said that during a bout of seasickness on a sailing from France to Scotland, it was the sugary substance made of quinces she turned to in order to ease her queasiness.
Meanwhile, the English were enjoying a variation of the spread, which was created by pounding soft fruits, such as apricots or plums, to a smooth pulp.
Modern marmalade
The 'invention' of marmalade as we know it is generally credited to the Scots. In a story that probably owes more to legend than fact, it is said that a Dundee woman, Janet Keiller, made the first shredded batch of marmalade in the 1790s. When faced with a pile of bitter oranges from Seville, she set about finding a use for them. Several hours later - with no doubt many copper pots to wash - modern marmalade was born.
Whether that story bears scrutiny or not, it's true that the Keiller family built the first marmalade factory in 1797. Thereafter Dundee was referred to as the 'home of marmalade'. And, while there's still a strong association between the city and the sticky treat today, there's only one remaining large-scale producer of orange marmalade in Dundee.
Marmalade is made in a number of styles. You're most likely to be spreading Dundee marmalade if it has a jelly consistency and contains shredded peel. Or, if you prefer a darker, thicker variety, then you are enjoying marmalade Oxford-style.
Is it jam or is it marmalade?
Ask a lawyer if you're unsure because, under European law, the word 'marmalade' can only be applied to fruit preserves made from citrus fruits. A product made with any other kind of fruit must be called 'jam'. Quite where this leaves chefs' inventions such as 'onion marmalade' and 'chili jam' opens up a whole new debate.
So, if you want to stay on the right side of the law, you can make some marmalade at home, and mid- to late winter is the best time, when the bitter Seville oranges are available in abundance from Spain.
Re: Marmalade!
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:57 pm
by Angela Woodford
J.R. wrote:I adore standard chunky cut Seville orange marmalade.
Jan prefers ginger marmalade.
Ginger marmalade! I believe it can't be called that any more as "marmalade" has to be made from citrus fruits... some important European diktat! It was one of my mother's absolute favourite Christmas things. When the ginger marmalade apperared in the cupboard, the Christmas Countdown was on!
Standard chunky cut, JR? Yes! Lots of butter, chunks weighing down the toast.
I wonder what Philip will find? I think David (sejintenej) once told us that marmalade comes from the Portuguese term for a quince paste. But my memory might be faulty.
I once ate a wonderful home-made clear golden jelly marmalade with the tiniest slivers of peel. Delicious.
PS post edit! Thanks Philip - hey, interesting!!! And my David origin-of memory was correct!
Re: Marmalade!
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:14 pm
by Fjgrogan
I used to cheat when making marmalade, but buying tins of ready prepared oranges. However I left one at the back of the cupboard for too long and eventually it exploded. At least it solved the problem of getting Seville oranges out of season. Ginger marmalade sounds great, but the rest of the family don't like ginger. (I have recently discovered Mrs Beatons Ginger ice-cream - definitely to be recommended - I eat it by the tubful!) My preserving pan is knackered because I used it to boil water years ago when our Ascot Multipoint was condemned and we were left with no hot water. I tried boiling rhubarb in it to clean it but to no avail - I think I also have my mother's old one somewhere - probably in the loft with the dozens of jars that I have been hoarding for years. It's a pity you are not nearer to here, Angela, I could have passed on all my old jars. Anyway you sound very organised and knowledgeable on the subject. I am sure Miss Jukes would be proud of you.
Phil, where in Thailand are you? I have a cousin here at the moment who normally resides in Phuket and will be returning soon. Perhaps I could send over with him a jar of real English chunky Seville (contradiction in terms there!).
Re: Marmalade!
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:57 pm
by J.R.
Angela Woodford wrote:J.R. wrote:I adore standard chunky cut Seville orange marmalade.
Jan prefers ginger marmalade.
Ginger marmalade!
I believe it can't be called that any more as "marmalade" has to be made from citrus fruits... some important European diktat! It was one of my mother's absolute favourite Christmas things. When the ginger marmalade apperared in the cupboard, the Christmas Countdown was on!
Standard chunky cut, JR? Yes! Lots of butter, chunks weighing down the toast. Delicious.
Don't get me started again, Angela. I absolutely
REFUSE to bow down to those corrupt European idiots.
I love toast and marmalade with soft boiled eggs. Hence the expression which made my girls laugh when very young.
Chick to Mother:-
"Ma, me laid !'
Re: Marmalade!
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:03 pm
by jhopgood
Having helped my mother to make both jam and marmalade on occasions, I seem to remember that with orange marmalade, one of the problems was getting the pith off the skin so that the tangy flavour was reinforced. We also had a problem ensuring that the mixture didn't set like a rock. (I have a similar problem when making Costa Rican cajeta, but that is another recipe).
Living in Valencia, one would have thought that it was easy to get bitter oranges, but they are not grown here. There are umpteen types of oranges grown, none of them bitter. I believe they may well be grown for the export market only. Both Spanish and French Orange marmalades are sweet, which comes as a shock if one is after the tangy version. Not that the Spanish make much orange marmalade.
I am a great ginger fan, used to think my hair was that colour, until the grey set in. Ginger Marmalade is now called Ginger Preserve, but only seems to be made in the UK. We always have raw ginger in the house and use it grated in hot water as a drink that will clear your head and settle your stomach. Spicier than any herbal tea and probably just as good for you.
I cannot get too excited about the stupidities of the EEC people in Brussels. I am always reminded of a book we bought for the children many years ago, which went through the human race pointing out that we all had different colours, hair, faces, noses, ears, customs etc. It then had a page of lots of identical looking people dressed in some Mao like khaki uniform, with the comment, "How Boring if we were all the same". I think the EEC bureaucrats got stuck on that page, which means they never grew up to enjoy the variety available in this world. The only people who slavishly follow the EEC diktats are petty minded people, with whom I have no sympathy.
Now where was that recipe for Ginger Marmalade?
Re: Marmalade!
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:54 pm
by sejintenej
Ajarn Philip wrote:Angela Woodford wrote:""Is it jam, or is it marmalade?" Ask a lawyer if you're unsure..."
Over here it is simply called orange jam, which seems quite sensible to me - is there a difference between preparing (for example) strawberry jam and marmalade (other then the obvious!)?
Angela, my little pot of strawberry jam with clotted cream and a scone, you could never be in my bad books!
It has just occurred to me to investigate the origin of the word 'marmalade' - I'll be right back...
Origin: portuguese Marmelada which is quince jam. My guess is that originally it came from Moorish / Arab
Difference in preparation? Yes - very different. According to the book cook the fruit in water for +/- 90 minutes before adding sugar. Making jam I tend to simply heat the fruit dry (it liquidises) for perhaps 10 minutes before adding sugar. Marmelade has about 2kg sugar* to one kilo of fruit but with jam I don't think it is ever more than 1:1 (I go for 1kg fruit to 750 grams sugar) for jams. Some jams need added pectin - marmelade from citrus fruits doesn't
* for seville oranges which are bitter
Recipes? I have a long list on my French PC but you could start with
http://recipes.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Cate ... de_Recipes
http://www.uktvfood.co.uk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/
There are a few way-out ones on
http://www.epicurious.com/tools/searchr ... e&x=5&y=11
My real concerns are:
- there is a 2 month max season for Seville oranges and it has just finished though of course you could use lemons, limes, grapefruit, pineapple, (even ordinary oranges but reduce the sugar amount!!!!!)
- Boiling for 90 minutes is probably a bit expensive.
- I see absolutely no reason why you shouldn't use a generic jam recipe with oranges / other citrus. I do this with quince every year without problems (though I do have to pass it through muslin but that is specific to quince
jelly and quince butter.) However, if you are going to use the peel then it needs to be boiled separately in advance for a long time to soften it.
Good luck
Re: Marmalade!
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:40 pm
by midget
Chunky and not too much sugar, hence made in smallish quantities. Boil the fruit whole (quicker in pressure cooker) cool it a bit, annd the cutting up is much easier.
Re: Marmalade!
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:49 am
by Angela Woodford
Thank you, thank you everyone for these wonderful contributions!
I have got nearly everything I need, gathering together a few more jars - how kind of you, Frances, to remember your jar collection ! I wish we lived a bit closer... Would Miss Jukes be proud of me? I doubt it!
(I know we did Food Preservation with her, but strangely, all I recall is layering some green beans in a jar with salt; a procedure which I have never needed to repeat.)
John, I was very interested to read that the bitter Seville oranges are for export only - a bit like sweet sherry, I suppose! I also make a ginger infusion - I love it - a delicious drink! I've never forgotten hitchhiking to Morocco after I left school, and being deposited in Madrid by a van driver. The street was lined with orange trees. I thought that was just gorgeous!
Thanks for the links to all those recipes, David, I've had a lovely time checking on them! A pineapple marmalade is a superb idea! I think I may begin with a three-fruit marmalade - have found a source of lovely pink grapefruit and a special offer for lemons. I'm also the proud new owner of a funnel for spill free pouring into jars. I've located a Womans' Hour recipe for a jelly marmalade which sounds heavenly - but possibly not for the beginner.
A marmalade I especially remember is Roses Lime Marmalade - a favourite on home jam days at CH. I see it in my mind's eye on the tea table next to Marmite, Sun Pat Crunchy Peanut Butter, and Chocolate Spread in a red-and-white waxed carton. The Lime Marmalade came in a rather terrific faceted jar - very attractive.
Many many thanks again for all the advice/tips/ inspiration!
Salmon and licorice, oysters and passion fruit ....
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:11 pm
by sejintenej
Seeing that there are passionate chefs and chefettes amongs us, I commend to your delectation
http://khymos.org
You have heard of lamb and mint sauce, beef and horseradish so draw up a chair and read what other pairings you can try at
http://khymos.org/pairings.php
I think the idea of using coffee (best Blue Mountain of course) instead of stock in your jus (gravy to everyone else) sounds like way out, man.