Roger Allam in Radio Times

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loringa
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by loringa »

Katharine wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:59 pm
loringa wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:06 pm I strongly subscribe to the view that Old Blues go to Christ's Hospital so their children won't need to. The excellent education I received enables me to choose how to educate my daughter; this doesn't apply to everybody of course, especially the non-foundationers, some of whom are on this forum (and their parents) but it seems to me a fair rule of thumb.
Some of us are the children of Old Blues. There weren’t many second generation Blues that I knew of at Hertford but the majority of us were daughters of the vicarage/manse. I think the clergy children are exempt from your generalisation, certainly stipends then were very small. In my last year my parents paid £120 towards my fees, and expected to pay at least as much to my grant. They were asked to contribute just £6 a year
Certainly I would exclude children of clergy, as well as nurses, teachers and other generally underpaid professionals as well, of course, those who have fallen on hard times through any number of reasons including loss of a spouse or partner, or parental sickness and disability. It is only meant as a rule of thumb but is, I think, borne out by my own experience as well as by yours. We did have some children of OBs but relatively few, and certainly far, far fewer than you would expect to find at other Public Schools.

For David - non-foundationers were the children of members of staff who, presumably, were not considered to be part of the foundation but whose access to schooling was dependent upon their parent's or parents' employment.
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

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One of the things I like about this forum is the way topics are allowed to veer off track, however I can't help feeling we've had this conversation about charity status numerous times on other threads over the last decade and more. Does anyone know how much Roger Allam's parents paid towards his fees? Otherwise I fail to see the relevance... :)
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

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I was just about to say much the same thing!
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by loringa »

Ajarn Philip wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:12 pm One of the things I like about this forum is the way topics are allowed to veer off track, however I can't help feeling we've had this conversation about charity status numerous times on other threads over the last decade and more. Does anyone know how much Roger Allam's parents paid towards his fees? Otherwise I fail to see the relevance... :)
This thread is about Roger Allam's stating that Christ's Hospital was a charity school which was challenged by one of the contributors so any comment about cahritable status, fees etc is actually on topic. OTOH as Roger Allam was the person who mentioned that CH was a charity school any discussion mentioning him would also appear to be entirely appropriate...

... but you are right, we have discussed full fee payers and the relative desirability, or not, of accepting them elsewhere so probably best to revert to spinning Roger Allam dits. :)
Last edited by loringa on Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

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Goatherd wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:25 pm I was just about to say much the same thing!
Equally irrelevant, but John Gower, at the time chairman of CHA, and I, met the CHA manager in London to go over some stuff related to the Blue. At one stage the CHA manager remonstrated with us, saying that she had noticed with Old Blues, their tendency to go off at a tangent, and inability to keep on topic for longer than five minutes.
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by harryh »

Ajarn Philip wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:12 pm One of the things I like about this forum is the way topics are allowed to veer off track, however I can't help feeling we've had this conversation about charity status numerous times on other threads over the last decade and more. Does anyone know how much Roger Allam's parents paid towards his fees? Otherwise I fail to see the relevance... :)
No idea of fees, but his father was a clergyman.
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by Katharine »

jhopgood wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:47 pm Question of timing.
Whilst I cannot remember any career advice at CH, we were all aware of UCAS?, and that one could go to university if you got the right grades at "A" level. You could apply to 6 universities, and we soon found out that certain universities would only see you if they were top of the list.
There were the "Oxbridge" lot who stayed on an extra term, and the rest of us who left in the summer, or earlier if they discovered that they already had the right grades.
Tuition fees were paid for by the local council, I think, who also gave a grant for living expenses, which should have been topped up by parents.
Same for everyone I knew at university, and as I was on an engineering course, many of those on my course were also doing a student apprenticeship, or 1-3-1, as we knew it.
I think it was UCCA in our day, not UCAS - yes you could apply to 6 universities. Very little career advice at Hertford in my time

I was one of the "Oxbridge" lot so applied after A levels and got my first offer almost by return of post - I remember being amazed how quickly it came.

I think in mid-sixties everyone got their tuition paid by the local council - not sure whether that applied to things like drama school, art college etc. The value of the maintenance grant depended on household income. I had friends who lived in Lancashire, they got two terms grant at the start of the academic year and most were absolutely asking approaching Easter! Some Councils paid the University direct for tuition others paid the student who then had to pay - Hertfordshire was the former sort, easier for me!
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by sejintenej »

jhopgood wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:47 pm
Whilst I cannot remember any career advice at CH, we were all aware of UCAS?, and that one could go to university if you got the right grades at "A" level.
Sorry, John but a capital sized NO. Where did you get the information about UCAS from? Certainly did not seem to be common knowledge.
Tuition fees were paid for by the local council, I think, who also gave a grant for living expenses, which should have been topped up by parents.
Same for everyone I knew at university, and as I was on an engineering course, many of those on my course were also doing a student apprenticeship, or 1-3-1, as we knew it.
Again not known by me until you posted this. I had understood that unless you got a scholarship then parents had to pay full whack.

CH LET US DOWN YET AGAIN
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What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by sejintenej »

jhopgood wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:27 pm
Goatherd wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:25 pm I was just about to say much the same thing!
Equally irrelevant, but John Gower, at the time chairman of CHA, and I, met the CHA manager in London to go over some stuff related to the Blue. At one stage the CHA manager remonstrated with us, saying that she had noticed with Old Blues, their tendency to go off at a tangent, and inability to keep on topic for longer than five minutes.
LOL.
I used to subscribe to a newsgroup called Demon Local; it was a stated rule that the subject HAD to off on a tangent within 3 posts otherwise there would be a complaint. The other rule was that posting the correct spelling of the German HILTER stopped the thread
Unfortunately we got too many Americans posting, hence the nickname of "merkin" (which is a pubic wig)
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by sejintenej »

harryh wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:52 pm
Ajarn Philip wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:12 pm One of the things I like about this forum is the way topics are allowed to veer off track, however I can't help feeling we've had this conversation about charity status numerous times on other threads over the last decade and more. Does anyone know how much Roger Allam's parents paid towards his fees? Otherwise I fail to see the relevance... :)
No idea of fees, but his father was a clergyman.
That would not be the first time. The father of Samuel Taylor Coleridge was also a clergyman and housemaster (they have a different name for the job) at Eton. It seems to have been quite a job to get STG into CH - it seems his father had to create considerable debts. I have no idea if the father had to pay anything to CH. His descendants of my generation went to Eton and some girl's finishing school!
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by Phil »

Katharine wrote
I think in mid-sixties everyone got their tuition paid by the local council
This was not so. There were at least two other ways then of financing university expenses (including living costs and a book allowance). They were:

1. A State Scholarship, provided by the national government, to those who did well in A and/or S level examinations. How many were offered each year and what percentage of exam marks were required I don't know. The university was paid its funds directly, the awardee received only his/her living and book allowances.
2. The more prestigious scholarships, exhibitions, etc., offered by Oxbridge colleges. These were nominally of value £100, or some such sum, which was topped up to the value of a state scholarship by the national government. I presume other universities also offered such scholarships, but probably many fewer.
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by AMP »

Going back to Roger Allam, as I started this detour(and I agree with all the previous comments and concerns, just don't have a thank button available):
The only reason I have ever heard of a number of these famous OBs (Magee etc)is because I was at CH, otherwise Roger would never have been on my radar.
I don't doubt that he is a fine actor and that I am ignorant, it's just that I have never seen him in anything I have ever watched.
However, I do plan to watch Uncle Vanya when it is shown on the BBC.

I had a habit of regularly bumping into OBs of all generations on trains etc shortly after I left CH and one of them was able to explain the phenomenon:

"It's because we've all got big mouths"
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by Mid A 15 »

AMP wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:46 am Going back to Roger Allam, as I started this detour(and I agree with all the previous comments and concerns, just don't have a thank button available):
The only reason I have ever heard of a number of these famous OBs (Magee etc)is because I was at CH, otherwise Roger would never have been on my radar.
I don't doubt that he is a fine actor and that I am ignorant, it's just that I have never seen him in anything I have ever watched.
However, I do plan to watch Uncle Vanya when it is shown on the BBC.

I had a habit of regularly bumping into OBs of all generations on trains etc shortly after I left CH and one of them was able to explain the phenomenon:

"It's because we've all got big mouths"
I would be surprised if you haven't seen Roger without being aware as for many years he was a prolific supporting rather than leading actor in a number of TV shows and films.
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

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Phil wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:46 am Katharine wrote
I think in mid-sixties everyone got their tuition paid by the local council
This was not so. There were at least two other ways then of financing university expenses (including living costs and a book allowance). They were:

1. A State Scholarship, provided by the national government, to those who did well in A and/or S level examinations. How many were offered each year and what percentage of exam marks were required I don't know. The university was paid its funds directly, the awardee received only his/her living and book allowances.
2. The more prestigious scholarships, exhibitions, etc., offered by Oxbridge colleges. These were nominally of value £100, or some such sum, which was topped up to the value of a state scholarship by the national government. I presume other universities also offered such scholarships, but probably many fewer.
Actually I was wrong about tuition fees in the mid-60s, tuition was free by then, according to wiki in this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_ ... ed_Kingdom
1962–1998
David Eccles, Secretary of State for Education, under Harold Macmillan's Conservative Government, published the Education Act 1962, which granted an exemption for "ordinarily resident", full-time, students from University tuition fees, along with introducing a right to a means-tested maintenance grant. Fees remained in place for part-time and non-resident (overseas) students. The act remained in place till repealed in 1998.


I think State Scholarships had stopped by 1966 when I went up, presumably in 1962.

I did have a University Scholarship* to the value of £50 a year which was paid to me and did not pay my tuition fees. As I had received that scholarship, CH gave me an Exhibition which, if I remember rightly was about £75. Some of this was put on account for me at Blackwell's (book shop) and some sent direct to me.
*An Abbott's scholarship for the sons and daughters of the clergy of the Church of England and the Church of Ireland, who without this scholarship would not reap the full benefits of their time at the University
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

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For those interested in the sums involved, in those halcyon days of the late 50s when all university expenses were paid, the university’s fees were paid directly by the central government. This covered all tuition and the costs of living in residence. The incidental other expenses, paid to the student, were about £450 pa. This sum was adequate to live simply without any stress. Oh for those happy days to return!
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