Release of Roger Martin

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robert totterdell
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Release of Roger Martin

Post by robert totterdell »

Just to advise that Roger Martin is due for release on 4th July 2021 and as this falls on a weekend he will be released on Friday 2nd July 2021. He will be under restrictions and has been placed on the Sexual Offenders Register. I should say that many consider the SOR a rather useless tool as there is still no formal Statutory requirement for organisations/societies/clubs etc. to refer to it and this applies, also, to a DBS (formerly CRB) check. The Dept. of Education does require schools to undertake the check but for employees. Some do check on non-employed persons who undertake recreational activities but not all.

Whilst many feel that Martin was a good teacher it does depend on whether you just look at his ‘teaching abilities’ or whether you look at his responsibilities with regards to a duty of care for those in his charge. Given the details within the court case that I attended, I would say that he had a continued tendency throughout his time at the school to hold an ‘unhealthy’ interest in young boys. Whilst he has been convicted based on one case alone, I am able to confirm that there was an almost identical incident with another pupil which was disallowed as evidence in the court case as too prejudicial against Martin’s defence – it was so similar that if the Jury had heard it they would have found him guilty regardless of the facts. There was a further ‘letter of bad Character’ also disallowed which would have been a ‘nail in his coffin’ concerning the holding of slides of naked boys and their genitals until 2009.

Martin was, and probably still is, a very intelligent man but that does not make him a ‘good teacher’ as teaching requires far more than just talking on the subject being discussed. His great work on the history of Starehe in Kenya (the CH of East Africa and part of the exceptionally dubious Round Square group of schools) fails to detail the massive sexual and corporal abuse that occurred at that school which finally forced UNESCO to advise the Kenyan Government to curtail all Corporal punishment in their schools or lose UN funding. Martin was part of that regime and, along with the founder of the school, objected to this even though he had returned to CH.

In my consideration, he is a very manipulative individual – certainly his attempt to confuse the Jury with regards to the cine filming of naked boys jumping in and out of the bath in the ‘lav end’ was detailed and clever, even if it did not work for him – he managed to describe 3 types of lav end from his time as boy at the school (early 50’s), his time as a master in Prep and his time as a master in Barnes.

All of this, along with the fact that he was convicted, does not make Martin a ‘good teacher’ – it makes him a perverse and bad teacher. Perhaps those who feel he was ‘a good teacher’ might like to consider the lifetime consequences of his activities not just concerning the victim in the court case, but to others who have decided not to come forward. If ‘good teaching’ allows for abuse of those being taught and cared for, then those proposing that should seriously look at their view of a society where that is acceptable.

Roger Martin was a disgrace to the teaching profession, a disgrace to society and a disgrace to his own life – he was not a good teacher – he was a pervert. He may now enjoy his retirement: his victim(s) will continue to live with the consequences of what he did as both a teacher and sexual abuser.
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Re: Release of Roger Martin

Post by J.R. »

Thanks Rob.

I agree.
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Re: Release of Roger Martin

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robert totterdell wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:34 am Just to advise that Roger Martin is due for release on 4th July 2021 and as this falls on a weekend he will be released on Friday 2nd July 2021. He will be under restrictions and has been placed on the Sexual Offenders Register. I should say that many consider the SOR a rather useless tool as there is still no formal Statutory requirement for organisations/societies/clubs etc. to refer to it and this applies, also, to a DBS (formerly CRB) check. The Dept. of Education does require schools to undertake the check but for employees. Some do check on non-employed persons who undertake recreational activities but not all.
Hi Rob,

I haven't addressed you personally before with regard to your experiences, because I am not in a position to comprehend those experiences and have nothing to add that would make your situation better. I read, and greatly appreciate, everything you write, and I truly wish you well and thank you for your tireless work in matters relating to this scandal.

What I can comment on is the SOR, as I worked for the Probation Service and used to come in daily contact with people like Martin.

As to whether it SOR should be available to organisations / employers / the general public, like the US, there are 3 main arguments against this:

- Vigilantism - regardless of whether anyone cares about the safety of a sex offender, justice is supposed to be handed down by the courts, not the public, and it would also put a huge strain on policing, in terms of manpower and costs.

- Threats to the safety of offenders' innocent family members. Whatever someone has done, their families never deserve to suffer more than what they already have through the revelations of the offender's actions.

- Mistaken identities leading to innocent people being targeted - not just physically, but also through discrimination, e.g. if an employer has access to the SOR and finds someone with a similar name/date of birth to an offender, this can lead to innocent people losing jobs, homes, etc. This has happened in the US.

So while the SOR is not public, registered sex offenders are among the most extremely monitored people in society, along with terrorists and murderers. I posted here: https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 99#p147399 about all the requirements and restrictions they are subject to.


As to your comment about non-employed persons and DBS checks: anyone working or affiliated in any capacity whatsoever in/to a sector that is exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (including, of course, schools), regardless of whether they are an employee, a freelancer, a volunteer, a temporary contractor, auxiliary staff not directly related to the purpose of the institution (cleaners, maintenance staff), or on-site resident family members, must undergo a standard or enhanced CRB check (i.e. one that will show all convictions, including spent ones). At CH, even family members of staff residing on site have to have DBS checks, even if they do not work for CH in any capacity. The same applies to family members of employees living on site at a care home, hospital, prison, etc.

Organisations, clubs, etc. indeed can't check the SOR, but the offender is required to tell their probation officer if they are involved in any clubs. (Of course there is a risk that they will not do so, but they will be found out because SORs are regularly followed and monitored in the course of their daily lives by the Public Protection Unit.) I can give a couple of real life examples regarding clubs/organisations where the link/risk is tenuous to non-existent but still maximum risk-averseness was exercised:

- An offender was in a book club at a library. The club's time slot adjoined that of a children's group (scheduled either directly before or after his club). Never at any point was the offender alone or unsupervised, the place had CCTV, and there were always other club members, the general public and library staff present, but still the offender had to stop going to the club due simply to the brief overlap.

- An offender worked as a gardener. All the checks were carried out to make sure that no minors were involved and the offender never worked unsupervised. At one point the gardeners had to do work on some land that belonged to a school, on a Saturday, in school holidays. Despite the total absence of any minors and any school activity, the offender was forbidden from doing this work.


I would also add that it is illegal for a registered sex offender to even apply for a job involving minors or vulnerable people. Of course, if the application is rejected outright, the establishment will not know of the offender's past and the authorities will be unaware of the application being made. But if it progresses to the DBS check stage, a flag will alert and the offender faces 5 years' imprisonment for simply applying for the role.
robert totterdell
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Re: Release of Roger Martin

Post by robert totterdell »

Many thanks for this and I totally agree that there are safeguards on this matter (provided Cairncross isn't involved)! However, i have two examples where the legal procedures have fallen short:

Burr was sentenced to 42 months and increased on the day to 48 months. After his case was sent to the Appeal Court by the Solicitor General as a too lenient sentence, his sentence was extended to about 79 months (can't remember the exact amount even though I was there). The judges took two counts, one my 2nd count, and made them consecutive rather than concurrent. But, the Probation Service and the Prison Service were unaware of this (Burr didn't attend) and thus after 24 months one of the victims got a letter saying that he was being released. I intervened when I was told and they realised their mistake even though Burr himself told them before. He was due to be released within 3 days of my intervention.

In a village very close to where I live a man was due to appear in Worcester Court for sexual abuse that had occurred in 2015 (quite a few counts) - this was October 2020. His activities were against small girls and boys many involving the local primary school were he helped with something (I think it was activities).

The man failed to appear at court and later the Northumbria police advised that he had been found on a beach having committed suicide.

It transpired that he had been convicted of sexual abuse in 2002 for events in the 1990's. He had moved and none seem to been aware of his conviction.
No one looked at the SOR or undertook a DBS/CRB check - he established himself within the community.

The point that I am trying to make is that although the legal framework exists it is not always followed and there seem to be little or no consequences involved. (I guess this is similar to the Plymouth shooting).

Burr could, on release, move to say Ilfracombe from Kingswear and, although both in Devon, it is unlikely that the former would know about his activities or convictions. Although checks should be done and he is supposed to advise his probation officer of his activities I think it unlikely this would actually happen - particularly allowing for budget issues in the Probation Service.

There are a number of sexual abuse cases where the perpetrator has already been convicted, or, for that matter, where there are reports and suspicions not followed up by the Police, Social Services, the council or anyone else. Remember that the first formal complaint about Burr was made in 2001 at Croydon police Station and it was rejected - in fact no action was taken at all.

Hope that this helps to understand my position.

Rob
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Re: Release of Roger Martin

Post by Katharine »

Thanks for that, Rob. I find your post very worrying, trite to say such things shouldn’t happen, but how on earth does the country ensure they don’t happen?
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robert totterdell
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Re: Release of Roger Martin

Post by robert totterdell »

Hi Katherine,

I am not an expert in this aspect but it strikes me that the Law must be much tougher with regards to bodies (clubs, youth groups etc.) doing a DBS check. I guess this comes back to Mandate Now.

In 2010, in the Conservative Manifesto, Cameron promised a statutory law requiring individuals who became aware of sexual abuse against minors, to have to report it to the police directly (not just a Safeguarding Officer). It was aimed at teachers but it was also aimed at domestic neighbours who were aware of child abuse. If it transpired that the matter had not been reported they could be Criminally prosecuted. Most would have received a reprimand/warning but some (like Cairncross) could have faced fines or prison.

Theresa May, who was Home Secretary at the time, dropped the proposed Bill s it would have been too expensive for the Courts and Police to handle and there was a concern about the Prison numbers. In essence people in the BBC could have been convicted for what they knew about Saville, Harris etc. In fact it was not going to retrospective.

A lot of countries have introduced a similar law - NZ, Australia, Canada, some US states, France and others including Romania which was pretty much the first after they got rid of Ceausescu.

Without this it is very difficult to ensure that people do follow up on checks. When Burr retired to Kingswear in Devon, he joined the RDYC and provided sailing lessons to 'younger' persons - the youngest class. He also provided help with the junior football team (under 14) at the local Catholic Church. Of course he had no criminal record or committed any abuse as far as we know - but he could of as he was never reported for the abuse at CH by his peers.

My concern is will he be able to carry on with young people in say the Scouts (his affiliation at and post CH)? Will they check?

I have just asked the police to undertake a DBS check on a Church Warden as the C of E hasn't and there seems to be issues with young alter girls.

Hope that this helps.
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Re: Release of Roger Martin

Post by Otter »

Thanks a lot, Rob. Illuminating to read, and thanks greatly for your personal intervention re: Burr.

Fully agree that there are gaps in the tracking of RSOs, and that there are possibilities for them to disappear. Harder than ever, due to technology and surveillance, but of course possible. It seems the only way to solve it would be indefinite prison sentences or electronic tagging.

I had a serious offender who quietly got hold of an EU passport without notifying (a criminal offence in itself for an RSO, which can carry up to 5 years' imprisonment). He then sailed to Ireland (no passport control of course from the UK), before flying to his European country of citizenship and staying there. UK Probation found out but any further action (right up to potential extradition) is impossible because the country in question does not extradite its own citizens, full stop, no exceptions. So for as long as he doesn't leave that country, he is untouchable to the UK authorities. Last thing I knew (this was several years ago when I left the job), he was being monitored closely by authorities there but nothing he could be arrested for while there.
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Re: Release of Roger Martin

Post by robert totterdell »

Thank you Otter for this. Interesting as a teacher from CH who has been raised with the police but not charged as the victims do not want to come forward, adopted a similar tactic. After leaving CH he went to Thailand. We do have an extradition treaty but it is hard to obtain. He then went to Australia and was 'removed' (I think it was Black Cross in passport stuff). He then has seemed to go between Thailand, Lesotho and Swaziland. Although the later are part of the Commonwealth we do not have formal extradition treaties with them. Now he hasn't been charged over at least three incidents but even if he was it will be almost impossible to get him back to the UK. And he is old now so it probably wouldn't be worth it.

However, if he had have been charged he may well have removed himself from UK jurisdiction. I guess it depends on whether the police either ask for his passport or get a court order to remove it.

I sort of feel everyone is under pressure and often with staff shortages and that is how people can slip through what should be a firm and tight statutory requirement. We have seen this with regards to both terrorism and sexual abuse in the UK. Sort of 'if you fail once, try, try again'.

Not helpful - sorry.
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Re: Release of Roger Martin

Post by sejintenej »

robert totterdell wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:44 am

My concern is will he be able to carry on with young people in say the Scouts (his affiliation at and post CH)? Will they check?
.
Just noticed this which is old

The answer is a very definite YES, they will check. In addition a person is generally introduced by a neighbour etc. so his or her neighbours and introducer(s) are checked locally. I suspect that they will also be checked out at district and even national level, My concern is whether the check is carried out regularly afterwards.
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Re: Release of Roger Martin

Post by Otter »

sejintenej wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:19 pm
robert totterdell wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:44 am

My concern is will he be able to carry on with young people in say the Scouts (his affiliation at and post CH)? Will they check?
.
Just noticed this which is old

The answer is a very definite YES, they will check. In addition a person is generally introduced by a neighbour etc. so his or her neighbours and introducer(s) are checked locally. I suspect that they will also be checked out at district and even national level, My concern is whether the check is carried out regularly afterwards.
Agreed. Not only will working directly and unsupervised with young people require an enhanced DBS check, but there is also the "Sarah's law" scheme whereby anyone with a specific and justified concern for a child's welfare can ask the police for background/criminal info on someone who has close contact with that child.

https://www.btp.police.uk/rqo/request/r ... CjcnBszQi9
robert totterdell wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:42 pm
Thank you Otter for this. Interesting as a teacher from CH who has been raised with the police but not charged as the victims do not want to come forward, adopted a similar tactic. After leaving CH he went to Thailand. We do have an extradition treaty but it is hard to obtain. He then went to Australia and was 'removed' (I think it was Black Cross in passport stuff). He then has seemed to go between Thailand, Lesotho and Swaziland. Although the later are part of the Commonwealth we do not have formal extradition treaties with them. Now he hasn't been charged over at least three incidents but even if he was it will be almost impossible to get him back to the UK. And he is old now so it probably wouldn't be worth it.

However, if he had have been charged he may well have removed himself from UK jurisdiction. I guess it depends on whether the police either ask for his passport or get a court order to remove it.
No problem, an interesting if depressing topic and state of play.

UK law does have extraterritorial jurisdiction over child sex offences (i.e. a British citizen can be charged and convicted in the UK for a child sex offence that took place anywhere in the world - most well-known example of this in recent years was Richard Huckle), but the issue is getting hold of them. Like you said, extradition has a very high bar, where a treaty even exists. In particular developing and/or Commonwealth countries are not keen on the UK coming into their countries to carry out arrests of Brits misbehaving abroad, as they want to be seen to be able to deal with such things without the old colonial masters having to clear up for them. This was clear in the Huckle (Malaysia) case. So often the only way to get hold of them is if they come back to the UK. As long as they stay away, sadly they are likely to get away with it.
Last edited by Otter on Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Release of Roger Martin

Post by sejintenej »

Otter wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:04 pm Agreed. Not only will working directly and unsupervised with young people require an enhanced DBS check, but there is also the "Sarah's law" scheme whereby the parent or guardian (or in Scotland, anyone at all) can ask the police for background/criminal info on someone who has close contact with a child.

https://www.btp.police.uk/rqo/request/r ... CjcnBszQi9
I wonder how well known this is and to what extent the police will want more information on WHY the information is sought. Also, reference the first line above it seems to be read as restricting the word "unsupervised" and cover anyone however closely supervised.

Also concerned by the following which suggests geographical limitations which is linked as "Parents Protect" from the above British Transport Police site
information about people who pose a risk to children can be given to parents and guardians in certain police service areas under the government's child sex offenders disclosure scheme (also known as Sarah's Law).
I have made a FOI enquiry as to this loophole and its reasoning. From experience FOI enquiries take time to yield results
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Re: Release of Roger Martin

Post by robert totterdell »

This a really interesting point, thank you. An international arrest warrant can be issued but it is not always recognised. In fairness a case can be heard without the perpetrator being present but it is rare. As you say, it really relies on the defendant returning to the UK. The issue becomes further complicated by the issue of 'passing through a third party country' - that unless you are Belarus where you use the air force. The best example of this is Mugabe. Tatchel got an issued International Arrest Warrant for him. This was accepted by Italy. He had to fly into Italy to attend at the Vatican which does not have extradition treaties and does not recognise International (or Italian) arrest warrants. The Italians took the view that he was just passing through and thus not on national soil and thus the arrest warrant did not apply. He flew out as well. The view was taken that as Mugabe was so high profile, Italy decided it wasn't worth the issue - similar to Thatcher and that Chilean president whose name I forget.

I suppose the issue is that if a sexual abuser passed through another country, would that country even know? And then would they actually follow up?

How many terrorists, who are known to the authorities here in Britain, have been able to commit their desires regardless? Saying something is entirely different to acting on something. Most sexual abusers (if not all) are fully aware of this. It is a difficult situation. I guess that whilst the law says something that does not mean that it will be abided by or action taken. You do 100mph on a motorway but you may not be caught even with all the modern camera and communication technology. Just thoughts (I have a DBS issue going on with the C of E right now (not me, I should say). Possibly a sex offender.
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