Telegraph article: Pupils at prestigious public school will receive lessons in 'white privilege'

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Avon
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Re: Telegraph article: Pupils at prestigious public school will receive lessons in 'white privilege'

Post by Avon »

Someone else might do a better job.
Pe.A
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Re: Telegraph article: Pupils at prestigious public school will receive lessons in 'white privilege'

Post by Pe.A »

loringa wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:52 pm
Pe.A wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:25 am
loringa wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:24 am
Interesting indeed. I probably subscribe to the basic premise of Critical Race Theory in that, unintentionally at least, the laws and culture of a country such as the UK derive from its history which, despite regular injections, welcome or otherwise, of fresh DNA from various invaders, was largely 'white' until we started to see the migrations of the post-war era. As such, the laws favoured, or discriminated against, the people for whom they were made, the overwhelming majority of whom were white.
Sorry - i am going to have to take this piecemeal...
Which laws in the UK have been specifically anti-'non-white'...?
For example the blasphemy laws (repealed in 2008) which were written for a Christian society. They simply didn't take other faiths into account. Have a quick scan of this if you need any further details: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/l ... 5/9506.htm. They were not written to be discriminatory I am sure (despite their blood-soaked history) but by only recognising Christianity they were discriminatory against all other religions, the majority of whose adherents are non-White.

Even within Christianity, Roman Catholics were debarred by law for many years from many state and Government functions from marrying into the Royal Family to holding a commission in the Armed Forces. Okay, this is religious discrimination and not specifically to do with the colour of one's skin precisely but discrimination against the Irish was widespread (and legal) for centuries. I would argue that, as a result of their Catholicism, the Irish (specifically the so-called Black Irish) were discriminated against right up to the fifties.

My point is simply that the laws of any nation are written for the people who comprise that nation which in the United Kingdom was, until recently, overwhelmingly White, Anglican and heterosexual. Intentionally or not these people were the ones who were best protected by these laws. I've mentioned the Catholics above so we are talking post-reformation but we can go back to the thirteenth century when King Edward I banned Jews from usury (1275) and then expelled them from England in 1290 to see how the laws of our land discriminate against minorities. An Anglo-Saxon peasant in medieval England had more protection under the law than a third generation Jewish doctor.
I cannot believe you are bringing up blasphemy laws- most Christians in the world hail from outside of Europe.

Persecution and discrimination of Jews in the medieval period was not racial - it was religious (apart from maybe in the Iberian Peninsula during the 1400s). Usury laws applied to everyone -regardless if they were Jewish or Christian.

But you are correct about anti Catholic sentiment in this country. One of the curious things about the UK i that it is perfectly feasible that someone of colour could be King or Queen - but not if they were Catholic.

Aside from the concept of white privilege which i disagree with, my main gripe is teaching it to pupils who probably have not had enough education to be able to critique it. Does anyone know to which age groups this would be taught? GCSE, A Level...? In which lesson would it be taught? Who would teach it etc etc?

And then there is the point i made in an earlier post, what exactly constitutes white...?
Last edited by Pe.A on Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Pe.A
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Re: Telegraph article: Pupils at prestigious public school will receive lessons in 'white privilege'

Post by Pe.A »

loringa wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:21 am
sejintenej wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:31 am Loringa. Reading your post you seem to be opening the country open to a non-violent (initially) takeover by a foreign culture / nation.
No, I am not. I am simply making the point that the laws are written to serve the people of a country, any country. We now have approximately 13% of our population of 66 million who are what are collectively known as BAME. This makes a difference and the laws of our land need to serve their needs as much as ours (if we are going to get into this them and us approach). The blasphemy laws are an excellent example; how can it be sensible or fair to have a law that penalises blasphemy against the Christian interpretation of God and not the Jewish or Islamic or, indeed, any others? It didn't, and it was repealed. This was both fair and very sensible, reflecting a society that is both increasingly secular and includes people from a wide range of cultures and backgrounds. Society changes and so does its laws, arguably a great many more in in your lifetime than in mine! Think of the death sentence, abortion, homosexuality, equal marriage etc, etc. This is a good thing and not a takeover by someone else.
There is a big difference between specifically anti - non-white laws, and the absence of laws proscribing discrimination on ethnic grounds.
sejintenej
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Re: Telegraph article: Pupils at prestigious public school will receive lessons in 'white privilege'

Post by sejintenej »

Pe.A wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:15 pm
loringa wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:52 pm
Pe.A wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:25 am
Sorry - i am going to have to take this piecemeal...
Which laws in the UK have been specifically anti-'non-white'...?
For example the blasphemy laws (repealed in 2008) which were written for a Christian society. They simply didn't take other faiths into account. Have a quick scan of this if you need any further details: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/l ... 5/9506.htm. They were not written to be discriminatory I am sure (despite their blood-soaked history) but by only recognising Christianity they were discriminatory against all other religions, the majority of whose adherents are non-White.

But you are correct about anti Catholic sentiment in this country. One of the curious things about the UK i that it is perfectly feasible that someone of colour could be King or Queen - but not if they were Catholic.
One of the major problems of English Law is in the non-enforcement. A senior police officer opined that the average person breaks 30 laws before he arrives in the office. Britain is absolutely beset by laws which could be but are not enforced and yet Parliament comes out with new laws simply saying what previous ones direct. .

Mention has been made of laws / customs against Roman Catholics but even in 1953 it was a Roman Catholic who had a prime role in HM's coronation and Norfolk has continued in such a role with no complaints from anyone.. Before anyone comes up with any anti-royal comment, never forget the physical and mental training which both the Royal Princesses went through when very young to fit them for that role.

By contrast we had a disagreement a few years ago when Prince Charles wanted to marry a divorcee. Val le Grice (a direct descendant of Samuel T Coleridge) took steps to enforce the law that no Roman Catholic could marry an heir to the throne but the PM overruled him based on another law which (from memory) makes all peopl eabsolutely equal under the law.
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
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Re: Telegraph article: Pupils at prestigious public school will receive lessons in 'white privilege'

Post by rockfreak »

Lucy Kellaway has some experiences to relate in her book Re-educated. Teaching in a multi-ethnic school in Hackney she inadvertently speaks of something attempting to be whiter than white.
"There was an intake of breath. The old-fashioned phrase which had seemed so innocuous as it formed in my head was ugly and wrong the minute it emerged from my mouth into the classroom. The atmosphere in the room was tense. A couple of students exchanged glances as if to say: 'What the hell? Did she really say that?' This alas was not an isolated incident. Until I started teaching I would often say so-and-so had a black mark against their name. It had never occurred to me that there was anything the matter with this until one day the phrase fell out of my mouth in class. I looked at the expressions on the two black faces in the front row. This phrase I have also put in the bin."

Later she recounted her experiences to a white journalist friend who expressed astonishment that she had given in to PC sentiments. "There had been no 'giving in', I snapped. It wasn't a question of being politically correct. The matter was as simple as this: if I say something that causes offence to my students then I have to learn to stop saying it. Right away."
sejintenej
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Re: Telegraph article: Pupils at prestigious public school will receive lessons in 'white privilege'

Post by sejintenej »

rockfreak wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:26 pm Lucy Kellaway has some experiences to relate in her book Re-educated.
Later she recounted her experiences to a white journalist friend who expressed astonishment that she had given in to PC sentiments. "There had been no 'giving in', I snapped. It wasn't a question of being politically correct. The matter was as simple as this: if I say something that causes offence to my students then I have to learn to stop saying it. Right away."
This is what annoys me. The English language has a multitude of sayings which will piss someone off just because they can't be bothered to learn complete English,
There! I have annoyed every Scot, Paddy, Commonwealth resident and American and really pissed off the do-gooders in this world. How? I referred to the language as English and not some fartarsed other word no sensible person has ever heard of.

Then we get to the engineer Ferdinand de Lesseps who continues to cause riots worldwide having created the Suez Canal. I am sure the residents of Ismailia, Port Said and no doubt many smaller enclaves are annoyed that the canal was not named to commemorate their town of residence; when will the riots start? . Then of course the workers had to be paid in cash every week - thousands of them with their hands out demanding loot. The highlyskilled went to the desk marked Engineers and those less skilled went to the desk marked Workers Other Grades. WOG has nothing to do with colour - only academic achievement. On the other hand he could have referred to them fairly accurately as labourers or LOGS. Beware that majestic oak.

There again, academic achievement. Surely we should ban the rank of Grecian on the grounds that they are neither of Greek parentage nor do most of them speak the langauge. What did Erasmus do to merit those who follow him?

There I have done it again. I have been upbraided by those offspring of terrorists by marking the word colour in red because they think (if they can!) that colour is wrong. For heavens sake, colour and workers Other Grades are perfectly sensible. I see Rockfreak is also damned by the merkins for using the word "offence" which gets a red mark (or is that non-U? I honestly have no idea what acceptable (to the narrow minded idiots) has the same meaning.

Then we come to those miseries who decry the inference that some people are happy. The whole world's queer save me an' thee and even thee's a little gay.

A reminiscence.
English is not the only language with illogical use of words and phrases as I found to my joy.
Spanish has the use of tengo to indicate that "I am or have" as in tengo frio (I'm cold), tengo hambre (I have hunger) Weeks after being posted, young and innocent, to a bank branch in a Spanish speaking city I was put on the counter as a cashier. Another cashier, beautiful and young, yelled to me across the hall "David, como sientese?" The banking hall being packed and it was baking hot I replied "Tengo calor". It went around Gibraltar in minutes that I wanted to throw this beautiful young (?innocent) maiden down and ................ I have committed similar langauge mistakes in a number of countries and it is ideal for breaking down reserves. I have seen a young Japanese friend make langauge mistakes in London with good results - she moved in as a pillow dictionary.

Language is a problem everywhere and those idiots should understand that without claiming to be "better" than arseholes
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
dsm
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Re: Telegraph article: Pupils at prestigious public school will receive lessons in 'white privilege'

Post by dsm »

Sejintenej, you've got your verbs mixed up in Spanish. Tengo calor is the perfect way to say you are hot, it's too warm, you feel hot. However, a direct translation from the English I am hot would be estoy caliente which would imply you've got the hots, you are sexually attracted. So, that's probably what you said which attracted mirth in the bank.
sejintenej
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Re: Telegraph article: Pupils at prestigious public school will receive lessons in 'white privilege'

Post by sejintenej »

dsm wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:51 am Sejintenej, you've got your verbs mixed up in Spanish. Tengo calor is the perfect way to say you are hot, it's too warm, you feel hot. However, a direct translation from the English I am hot would be estoy caliente which would imply you've got the hots, you are sexually attracted. So, that's probably what you said which attracted mirth in the bank.
LOL! I am sure that I used tengo because I had worked from the other references. It could well be that they were having a teasing session with someone just starting in the language. Whatever; it got me a few dates in a city where the old rules stood.

I don't know if it is relevant but that area of Spain has a dialect such that I cannot understand spoken Castelleno. I had no problem when I returned to the area four years ago. Also there are words used in Gibraltar which I was informed must never ever be used in Spain !!!!

The real problem with the Spanish language is that I had carioca one-on-one lessons for about 50 hours in London. it was after 19 years working in a Rio - Sao Paulo atmosphere (including especially the legal department there) that some one admitted that I speak Portunol!!!! So what? I understood and was understood and had a whale of a time which,, for me, is the most important thing.
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
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Re: Telegraph article: Pupils at prestigious public school will receive lessons in 'white privilege'

Post by rockfreak »

Lucy Kellaway's book Re-Educated is well worth reading but she also crops up on videos on You Tube on the subject of corporate bullsh*t. And this is entertaining too. She spent much of her time on the FT writing a column featuring a fictional CEO called Martin Lukes who posted pompous, overblown, corporate jargon to his employees. To start off with she made them up but soon readers started to send their own examples to her which they'd received from their bosses and she printed these verbatim, putting them into the mouth of Martin Lukes.

She thought that this might humiliate the bosses and encourage them to mend their ways but it all seemed to get worse. Bosses who'd originally been "110% motivated" about something or other ended up being "1,000% motivated". This offended against the maths that was one of her degree subjects. You can find her lecture on this business on You Tube under "Kellaway on Years of Corporate Nonsense".
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