Bullying & Abuse - Take II

Share your memories and stories from your days at school, and find out the truth behind the rumours....Remember the teachers and pupils, tell us who you remember and why...

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rockfreak
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Re: Bullying & Abuse - Take II

Post by rockfreak » Wed May 14, 2014 9:32 pm

michael scuffil wrote:
rockfreak wrote: How do they account for the fact that in countries like Finland and Germany they have a virtual one-tier educational system, and yet they have better social cohesion than us and indeed better economies.
Your statement would not be recognized in Germany,
where the three-tier division of the educational system is widely bemoaned in theory, but nothing is done about it in practice because the bemoaners benefit.

They have a selective system resembling the one we used to have in England. But as they don't have any real selection criteria (like an 11+), the selection tends to run on class lines. Social cohesion is no better in Germany either. If anything, worse, I'd say.
I defer to your local knowledge Michael, but none the less, has Germany had anything like the Tottenham riots, the Occupy camp, the G20 riots when Ian Tomlinson was killed? The protests that are going on up and down the country if you check social media here? Are people asked to be unpaid interns for commercial firms? Over 1,000 disabled people died in one 12-month period after being declared fit for work by the private firm Atos who were working for the DWP. Are these things commonplace in Germany? Britain is the seventh richest country in the world but virtually the most unequal in western developed Europe. How do we measure social cohesion? I guess we all moan about the country we live in. I only had one friend who lived in Germany in recent times and he told me that when he was unemployed the state made much more of an effort to find him something else and to keep he and his family's head above water. This is no longer the case in Britain. Is Merkel, the Christian Democrat, borrowing Thatcher's clothes? Is inclusive German social democracy dying?

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Re: Bullying & Abuse - Take II

Post by rockfreak » Fri May 16, 2014 9:09 pm

Michael Scuffil, to take this debate further, I still make the point that, does Germany have a version of Eton or Harrow where rich parents may pay 30 grand per year or whatever to send their little intellectual geniuses (or genii, if you did science under Uncle Kirby in the 50s) like David Cameron or Mark Thatcher, to leapfrog the rest and access the best teachers and facilities? When you talk of Germany's 3-tier system, let's get it sorted. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the German secondary education system still deliver the same deal for all Germans? It's not so much a matter of tiers as setting? You go onto campus and split up into (a) Very bright scholastic, perhaps studying Latin or medieval history (b) Moderately bright but less specialist (like me at CH, I think it's fair to say) (c) technical/vocational (like the manual school at CH).I understand that there are slight variations from state to state in Germany but isn't this system broadly applicable? To make my point: money can't buy you a big unfair advantage in German education. Perhaps there's a misunderstanding of terminology here. Post back if I've got it madly wrong. This Bullying and Abuse website is driving me mad. I woke up the other night and couldn't get back to sleep wondering whether the chap that got put into a laundry bag and dragged down the emergency stairs, narrowly avoiding a visit to Horsham A&E, ended up as a better, more rounded citizen in later life than he would have been otherwise.
These are deep philosophical questions that I think Socrates would have struggled with. It's only a matter of time before Foureyes comes on and tells us we're on the wrong thread. Let's open a new thread called "Deep Philosophical Questions".

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Re: Bullying & Abuse - Take II

Post by J.R. » Sat May 17, 2014 5:51 pm

rockfreak wrote:Michael Scuffil, to take this debate further, I still make the point that, does Germany have a version of Eton or Harrow where rich parents may pay 30 grand per year or whatever to send their little intellectual geniuses (or genii, if you did science under Uncle Kirby in the 50s) like David Cameron or Mark Thatcher, to leapfrog the rest and access the best teachers and facilities? When you talk of Germany's 3-tier system, let's get it sorted. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the German secondary education system still deliver the same deal for all Germans? It's not so much a matter of tiers as setting? You go onto campus and split up into (a) Very bright scholastic, perhaps studying Latin or medieval history (b) Moderately bright but less specialist (like me at CH, I think it's fair to say) (c) technical/vocational (like the manual school at CH).I understand that there are slight variations from state to state in Germany but isn't this system broadly applicable? To make my point: money can't buy you a big unfair advantage in German education. Perhaps there's a misunderstanding of terminology here. Post back if I've got it madly wrong. This Bullying and Abuse website is driving me mad. I woke up the other night and couldn't get back to sleep wondering whether the chap that got put into a laundry bag and dragged down the emergency stairs, narrowly avoiding a visit to Horsham A&E, ended up as a better, more rounded citizen in later life than he would have been otherwise.
These are deep philosophical questions that I think Socrates would have struggled with. It's only a matter of time before Foureyes comes on and tells us we're on the wrong thread. Let's open a new thread called "Deep Philosophical Questions".

You are more than welcome to David !!
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Re: Bullying & Abuse - Take II

Post by michael scuffil » Sun May 18, 2014 10:00 am

True, Germany has no prestigious private education system (though it has one or two prestigious private schools). But whether you go to a grammar school or not depends to a great extent on class*. For the middle class, it is automatic. For the lower classes, only if the parents are ambitious.

*class in Germany is 'academic'. The title 'Herr Prof. Dr. Dr. Dr. mult. h.c.' is taken seriously, S.D. (Seine Durchlaucht -- His Serene Highness) Prinz XYZ is not. On my British passport I can have a title entered, but only Lord or Sir, not Dr. In Germany, the only title I could have entered is Dr. (or Prof. or both).
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Re: Bullying & Abuse - Take II

Post by tub » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:19 am

I registered to join you all a mere 2 hours ago. Yesterday afternoon I was in the early stages of setting down my entirely-happy schoolday memories for the benefit of family posterity. I'd got up to being Alan Ryan's nursemaid. I did a stirling job for him - should you have the temerity to question my bragging rights, follow my yesterday afternoon's steps to Wikipedia. I sacrificed just about everything for that lad. Me? I reached the exalted rank of squadron leader in the RAF in reasonable time; I stayed there for the next 16 years.
I then upped sticks and family and headed for my wife's home of Perth, Western Australia. It's nice here.
I left Wikipedia with a smile on my face, thought I'd potter around the web a bit more, and found myself in the Forum.
When discussing schooldays with all and sundry over the last 50-odd years, I've almost always mentioned that there was minimal bullying at Housey. I'd philosophise that this might have been because many of us came from single-parent families who didn't have much money, etc, etc. Therefore, when I spotted this topic in the Forum, I dived in eagerly, expecting to enjoy others' similar experiences.
I was devastated. After a few minutes, I had to walk away, feeling as if I'd been kicked in the guts. The blow had the added force that came from knowing that I hadn't been reading a novel - this was all too obviously the awful truth.
My experience had been that there was nothing at Housey that you wouldn't find amongst kids anywhere. All kids are cruel to each other from time to time in what they say and do; my contemporaries and I did the verbal stuff, and we'd have flicked wet towels at each other wherever we'd been. Kids are the same today - surprise, surprise. We have the best grandkids in the world - who doesn't; they all do it. The confined environment of a boarding school makes it harder for those more frequently on the receiving end; here perhaps Housey was more confining than most - dunno, since I've never really discussed the degree of confinement others experienced elsewhere.
I am enjoying a fortunate life more and more as each day passes. My heart goes out to my fellow Blues who have been less fortunate - particularly those for whom the school experience has had a lasting unhappy effect.

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Re: Bullying & Abuse - Take II

Post by J.R. » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:57 am

Welcome to the Forum, Bryan.

What were your years at CH ?
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Re: Bullying & Abuse - Take II

Post by LongGone » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:58 pm

I missed this thread when it first opened, so I have only just read the entire contents. One thing struck me early on; the almost random array of responses, ranging from true horror stories to complete oblivion of any bullying. My experience in MaA in the 50s was at the latter end; I cannot remember any systematic bullying at all. There were random acts of violence, but they were just that: random, with little or no personal animosity. It could well be argued that I was simply unaware of any bullying, but it was a very closed society and we tended to be aware of a variety of other problems (stealing, smoking, drinking, homosexuality). Even as a monitor, with warnings from Barker to keep an eye out for particular problems, bullying was never brought up. I don't think I have been aware of an immediate contemporary from MaA on this forum, who might support or contradict my memories (which of course might be quite faulty!).
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Re: Bullying & Abuse - Take II

Post by michael scuffil » Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:04 pm

LongGone

I can support your memories of Maine A. Under both Tod and Barker, it was one of the civilized houses, and I often thought it was the house I would like to be in if I hadn't had the good fortune to be in ThB.
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Re: Bullying & Abuse - Take II

Post by rockfreak » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:06 pm

LongGone wrote:I missed this thread when it first opened, so I have only just read the entire contents. One thing struck me early on; the almost random array of responses, ranging from true horror stories to complete oblivion of any bullying. My experience in MaA in the 50s was at the latter end; I cannot remember any systematic bullying at all. There were random acts of violence, but they were just that: random, with little or no personal animosity. It could well be argued that I was simply unaware of any bullying, but it was a very closed society and we tended to be aware of a variety of other problems (stealing, smoking, drinking, homosexuality). Even as a monitor, with warnings from Barker to keep an eye out for particular problems, bullying was never brought up. I don't think I have been aware of an immediate contemporary from MaA on this forum, who might support or contradict my memories (which of course might be quite faulty!).
Why do you count homosexuality as a problem at CH in the 1950s? For many people it was a solution.

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Re: Bullying & Abuse - Take II

Post by LongGone » Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:46 pm

rockfreak wrote:
LongGone wrote:I missed this thread when it first opened, so I have only just read the entire contents. One thing struck me early on; the almost random array of responses, ranging from true horror stories to complete oblivion of any bullying. My experience in MaA in the 50s was at the latter end; I cannot remember any systematic bullying at all. There were random acts of violence, but they were just that: random, with little or no personal animosity. It could well be argued that I was simply unaware of any bullying, but it was a very closed society and we tended to be aware of a variety of other problems (stealing, smoking, drinking, homosexuality). Even as a monitor, with warnings from Barker to keep an eye out for particular problems, bullying was never brought up. I don't think I have been aware of an immediate contemporary from MaA on this forum, who might support or contradict my memories (which of course might be quite faulty!).
Why do you count homosexuality as a problem at CH in the 1950s? For many people it was a solution.
So were alcohol and smoking, it didn't make them any less illegal/against the rules.
Last edited by LongGone on Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bullying & Abuse - Take II

Post by J.R. » Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:37 pm

I don't personally remember anyone caught and punished for 'consorting' with fellow pupils during my time. There were quite a few cases of pupils getting caught with alcohol and tobacco.

I wasn't into alcohol during my school days, but did enjoy the occasional packet of ciggies in my last year. It made school much more bareable, and NO... I never got caught !!
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Re: Bullying & Abuse - Take II

Post by michael scuffil » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:06 pm

'Homo'-sexuality in this context is a misnomer. You mean sexuality. There was no other kind available. It was regarded as a problem by the authorities and by many of the strait-laced boys. I'd just call it an inevitable phenomenon.
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Re: Bullying & Abuse - Take II

Post by rockfreak » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:20 pm

michael scuffil wrote:'Homo'-sexuality in this context is a misnomer. You mean sexuality. There was no other kind available. It was regarded as a problem by the authorities and by many of the strait-laced boys. I'd just call it an inevitable phenomenon.
Good heavens Michael, you and I are in agreement for once. What a gay day!

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Re: Bullying & Abuse - Take II

Post by rockfreak » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:28 pm

Bryan Dowling, would you be the same chap who, with another Lamb A boy, was deputed to look after our Prep B table in dining hall in the 1950s? In those days the two Prep houses made more noise than the rest of dining hall on account of their unbroken voices. Did you nobly volunteer or were you pushed? I think it was the first time in my life that I understood the saying about someone drawing the short straw.

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Re: Bullying & Abuse - Take II

Post by sejintenej » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:47 pm

rockfreak wrote:
I defer to your local knowledge Michael, but none the less, has Germany had anything like the Tottenham riots, the Occupy camp, the G20 riots when Ian Tomlinson was killed? The protests that are going on up and down the country if you check social media here?
Germany: YES
France: YES
Spain: YES
Italy: YES
Greece: YES
Holland: YES
Belgium: Yes
Poland: YES

Britain is not unique in this respect. In fact compared to the terrorism in Germant and Italy England has been relatively peaceful (note that I write England and thus exclude Ulster which had certain parallels to Baader Meinhof - excuse spelling)

Sorry to see your post so late.

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