Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

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favouritethings
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Re: Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

Post by favouritethings »

cstegerlewis wrote:Excellent response!

Firtsly 'Judgement' as in opinion on the appropriateness, not on your person (ie remember not to personalise insults) - If I were trying to do what you are doing, with a few more years experience than I had as a recent Old Blue, I would be going straight to the SMT with it - public petitioning can be akin to lobbying, or even more extreme forms of behaviour - sometimes it is innappropriate for an 'authority' to be seen to bow to any sort of pressure, even though you may well have got changed through private discussion.

Secondly, closing down a website which was possibly/probably held or edited on CH assets is clearly within the rights (human rights) of an entity - if you provide an fund an asset you have some recourse to edit/control what it is used for. If it was managed independently by an external body or agency, then that would be for the courts to decide if it were free speech, or in breach of any law of libel/slander etc. Closing down a website and seeking some 'punishment' against the authors is hardly fascism, it is just enforcing the discipline of rules that probably the parents/guardians of the indivuals had signed up to (and the individuals were probably minors when it happened).

You use the word 'regime' in a perjorative sense as though it is necessarily bad - however it is just a set of rules that have been set and agreed to by the SMT, and should have the full endorsement of the governing body - if not supported by them, as the employer they may well direct the SMT otherwise or remove them. Therefore the target of your ire should perhaps be aimed higher?

However the simple fact remains that the SMT have been appointed, with the governing body well aware of Mr. Franklin's style and manner, which is where this fundamentally comes from. AFAIK they still support and endorse him, and if the parents do so as well it will continue. However it is a (mostly) free country, with freedom of expression and will, and if the consumers of the service do not like it (ie the parents, and to some extent the staff) they will have the freedom to object or remove themselves.

Where we all fundamentally agree is this removal should not be due to hastily, ill concieved plans to increase the parental contribution, to the detriment of the fundamental ethos of the school. I repeat my previous assertion that if you limited the petition to that singularly huge issue you would have my support.

Why should the staff remove themselves? There are a few who have left the school already and I think it an atrocity. Even Mrs Ireland, who wasn't their for MASSES of time but was around for a few years was phenomenal. Not to mention The revd Mitra and Revd Mitra and Mr Avenell. All absolute assetts to the school. And I can think of a few others who might leave who are just as important.

And why should parents remove their children? CH was a school like no other. It sounds cliche but there was a sense of community always, and even now, people who I didn't speak to at school speak to me and vice versa. We might not have realised it in our youth, but some bonds were built without us knowing, and definately a sense of unity. When I talk to others about their school experiences it was nothing the same. Franklin is technically making it into any other boarding school, as Hugh Overend once said to me. CH was never any old boarding school. and Nor should it be. So if the parents sent their children to CH it was to have an experience unlike the others.

Regime- it is a regime. There were always rules. I was punished several times, as were my friends, some friends were removed from the school permanently. There was always discipline. This is regimental, because it is EXTREME. Unnecessary. Pointless.

And it annoys me when people use the argument that people never adapt to change. If change is necessary it's fine. If it's done for the hell of it and just to make a controversial impact so people think you are truly turning things around and "wow look how Franklin came in and completely changed things," I think it's rubbish. It's like he has some kind of complex which means he has to do drastic things so he's remembered or respected or something. And when people say everyone will adapt to his ways and it takes some time, I think, he's been here nearly three years. Isn't that time enough?

I have friends at Ardingly, he did the same thing there. And his team came with him to CH.
cstegerlewis
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Re: Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

Post by cstegerlewis »

I fear you are missing my first point, so I shall be blunt....

1. Don't invoke the goals of Nicholas Ridley and the founders about the fundamental ethos of removing children from the streets of London and giving them an education and opportunities they would never have got in order to protect a few traditions that have very little history, and are products of the late 20th and 21st Century, not the 16th.

2. Do invoke the spirit of Ridley et al when objecting narrow minded changes of funding principles which appear to damage the opportunity for children to receive the excellent education Housey can give.

3. If you have a problem go to the source of the problem, the SMT. If you cannot get satisfaction there then go to the governing body and/or the council of almoners. If you don't get satisfaction there THEN go to the wider school community on the principle involved, not the symptoms.

I now withdraw, as it is becoming a bit pointless, unless the debate takes a positive direction - I represent my own views, which do not appear to be shared with many others.
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99yorkpj
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Re: Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

Post by 99yorkpj »

lonelymom wrote:What a brilliant idea - a petition to get rid of Gord! :D
Haha... I just left the country instead ;) I figured if the country wouldn't supply me with work etc, I would go elsewhere!!
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CHAZ
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Re: Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

Post by CHAZ »

99yorkpj wrote:
lonelymom wrote:What a brilliant idea - a petition to get rid of Gord! :D
Haha... I just left the country instead ;) I figured if the country wouldn't supply me with work etc, I would go elsewhere!!

How did you get your visa for canada?
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99yorkpj
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Re: Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

Post by 99yorkpj »

CHAZ wrote:How did you get your visa for canada?
I didn't - I had the blessed luck to be born here :D
lonelymom
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Re: Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

Post by lonelymom »

Wuppertal wrote: Fantastic and long-delayed result today in the Commons about the appalling treatment of the Gurkas.
Quite agree! There is an army base near where I live, with a large proportion of Gurkas based here, and their children go to the local schools. Recently there was a march through the town for the troops coming back from Iraq, and it was lovely to see all the little children cheering their dads and their wives/mums looking so proud. In my opinion, if these men are willing to fight alongside British soldiers, they deserve to be treated the same when they leave the army!
lonelymom :rolleyes:
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Re: Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

Post by blondie95 »

favouritethings wrote:
Why should the staff remove themselves? There are a few who have left the school already and I think it an atrocity. Even Mrs Ireland, who wasn't their for MASSES of time but was around for a few years was phenomenal. Not to mention The revd Mitra and Revd Mitra and Mr Avenell. All absolute assetts to the school. And I can think of a few others who might leave who are just as important.

.
Mr Avenell retired, as for others who may be leaving soon, some again are retiring and others are fairyl so moving onto other projects
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Re: Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

Post by midget »

From my recollection, was there not some antipathy towards Mr. Franklin before he even arrived?
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Re: Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

Post by 02juddra »

i am a current ch pupil, who as a grecian had been under both southern and franklin, and i agree with shane, but my main problem with the franklin/BAV regiem is that they seem to be trying to control all ascepts of pupil's lives. One major instance of this is the mooted plan to deal with sex in CH, i have this on good authority as two teachers both housemasters/mistress have spoken to pupils about this. The plan would be that as far as i can tell, that if any pupils are caught in a 'comprising position' then they may be expelled or at the very least suspended with no more chances. This rule would be enforced on all pupils regardless of age, which means that two 18 year old grecians caught in a 'compromisong position' they would be treated the same as two LE or a dep and a LE, This seems fairly stupid to me as ill agree that sex between a dep and an LE is on dangerous ground legally and the skl has a responsibility to all pupils but punishing two consenting over 16's seems excessive and a clear example of BAV, Franklin and the rest of the SMT trying to control us pupils. While this is only a possible plan, it still needs to be discussed and well seen for what it is.
Furthermore, i can see that the Housey spirt that was present when i first joined CH 2002, is slowely being eroded under Franklin. There is far less contact between the grecians and the houses especially after the marching changes, and the rock concert, some may scoff but this was a big show of housey spirt as it was all seniors coming out to listen to the many talented musicians in the skl who may not always have an opportunity. The shortening of this and forcing it to be grecians only performing really grates with me as i know that in the UF, GE and Deps there are some very talented bands who can't showcase their skill in front of a appriecitive auidance.
Well Rant over, Peace
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99yorkpj
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Re: Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

Post by 99yorkpj »

02juddra wrote:but punishing two consenting over 16's seems excessive and a clear example of BAV, Franklin and the rest of the SMT trying to control us pupils.
This is nothing new. It was the same before Franklin, and I am sure will remain this way. Everyone knows the rules when it comes to this. The idea is to set an example for younger students mostly I believe. It is also a school, a place of learning - it is not a University Halls yet! (Not even Grecians Houses!). It is supposed to be a safe place. The school does not control what you do during your holidays or leave time. So I suggest that students wanting to engage in something of this nature should do it outside the boundaries of the school. Obviously hand-holding and even kissing etc are not quite on the same level and I can easily understand how the banishment of these among students is taking things a little too far.
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Re: Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

Post by Spartacist »

Dear Pip,

I know for sure that it was not the same under Dr Southern regarding sex - I know many people that got caught in a "comprimising position" did not get expelled or a "last chance" .... this would not be fair on couples that are legally allowed to have sex, as well as if they are good academics and or musicians/sportspeople......

Back to cstegerlewis.

Dear cstegerlewis,

Thanks for complimenting me on behalf of my bold amateur response! I see that you know abit about the law.... and worry that your knowledge may outweight mine ;-)

Anyway, back to the point - Do not underestimate our naive ways! We have already taken into account that we could have gone to SMT ourselves - but seriously... You think they would take a bunch of recent OB's seriously? I doubt it would exactly intimidate them, or make them think "wait...we have a problem" ... Instead.... We wanted a petition with OB's as well as current blues on it - and the plan was to get around 800-1200 signatures.... I sent out a letter for the house captains and CH and 2 grecians (one from west, one from east) to spread the word of the petition. In the end, SMT got hold of it and made out it was a joke, and that pupils should not sign it.... etc etc. So either way, I feel like I have failed the Blue community.
cstegerlewis wrote:
Secondly, closing down a website which was possibly/probably held or edited on CH assets is clearly within the rights (human rights) of an entity - if you provide an fund an asset you have some recourse to edit/control what it is used for. If it was managed independently by an external body or agency, then that would be for the courts to decide if it were free speech, or in breach of any law of libel/slander etc. Closing down a website and seeking some 'punishment' against the authors is hardly fascism, it is just enforcing the discipline of rules that probably the parents/guardians of the indivuals had signed up to (and the individuals were probably minors when it happened).
When you say this, are you implying that because it was a Facebook group, that could not be accessed inside of CH grounds (due to FB having been banned) that CH was within its rights to shut it down? I totally disagree.... but cannot be bothered to go through my European law textbook to explain why!
cstegerlewis wrote:
You use the word 'regime' in a perjorative sense as though it is necessarily bad - however it is just a set of rules that have been set and agreed to by the SMT, and should have the full endorsement of the governing body - if not supported by them, as the employer they may well direct the SMT otherwise or remove them. Therefore the target of your ire should perhaps be aimed higher?
From what I hear, the governers of CH/Governing body now have no power, or next to none, in how the school is ruled.... This maybe rumour, but tbh, all rumour is based on truth.... And please tell me when there was ever a GOOD regime?
cstegerlewis wrote:
Where we all fundamentally agree is this removal should not be due to hastily, ill concieved plans to increase the parental contribution, to the detriment of the fundamental ethos of the school. I repeat my previous assertion that if you limited the petition to that singularly huge issue you would have my support.
You reapeat that if the petition was limited to a "huge issue" the petition would have your support - elaborate on this please?

Kind regards,
S.
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Spartacist
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Re: Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

Post by Spartacist »

blondie95 wrote:
Mr Avenell retired, as for others who may be leaving soon, some again are retiring and others are fairyl so moving onto other projects

I am pretty sure Mr Avanell didn't retire because he wanted to. From what I hear, he retired due to the way he was being treated by the new SMT.

This is the same for various other higher ranking members of staff. Unfortunately I cannot say who, as I am obliged to not mention it anywhere public.

But think, Mary Ireland, Munna Mitra, Bruce Grindlay..... All of these brilliant people moved/are moving for a specific reason.

Mr Franklin said to Mr Mitra: "Either you change the way you conduct chapel, or you leave"..... This is a rather harsh ultamatum for a man that had made chapel a worthwhile activity - kept us awake and alive with his enthusiasm.... and not to mention his booming voice!

I hope people also agree with this post!

Kind regards
S
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99yorkpj
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Re: Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

Post by 99yorkpj »

Spartacist wrote:Dear Pip,

I know for sure that it was not the same under Dr Southern regarding sex - I know many people that got caught in a "comprimising position" did not get expelled or a "last chance" .... this would not be fair on couples that are legally allowed to have sex, as well as if they are good academics and or musicians/sportspeople......
Maybe not expelled, but suspended for sure. I know 2 Grecians (from East (on my year)) who were suspended for being caught in their pajamas in the same room (- a guy and a girl who were dating at the time).
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Re: Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

Post by dinahcat »

And your point is ... ?
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99yorkpj
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Re: Repeal major detrimental changes at Christ's Hospital

Post by 99yorkpj »

whose point?
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