Does anyone on this forum go to church?

[Fjgrogan]

So did I - it was the YouTube performance that I disliked, but then I didn't have to watch it, did I? In fact, I switched off part way through.

[Fjgrogan]

Then I shall listen to them again, but at the beginning I found it quite difficult to decipher exactly what they were saying and once I 'cottoned on' I decided it hadn't been worth the effort. I have never been comfortable with the mass marketing of religion, particularly when some of those doing so then bring religion into disrepute by their own behaviour, but I am not sure that making fun of them necessarily is the way to go about preventing it. There are too many vulnerable 'believers' who are hurt by it, as well as providing fuel for those who are 'anti-religion' in general without actually examining too closely what any particular religion is really claiming. Those who can't be bothered to think about it then write off the genuine along with the charlatans. So I shall listen again. I'm afraid I am rapidly turning into a Grumpy Old Woman in that much of what is today described as 'alternative comedy' also leaves me totally unamused - it is only alternative in that it is not comedy - too often it consists of ridiculing the vulnerable rather than those whose antics deserve ridicule. It offends me that this kind of thing is offered as entertainment, and that so many people then actually find it funny because that is what they are conditioned to regard as comedy. Similarly TV announcers who warn that the forthcoming programme will include sex and violence and other 'adult' material - as though it is considered 'grown up' to indulge in violence; sex is a different matter - unfortunately it seems to no longer be reserved for adults, so why do we pretend that it is? OK, rant over; I told you I was becoming a Grumpy Old Woman - perhaps I always was. None of which necessarily has anything to do with the title of this thread.

[Jo]

And long live Grumpy Old Women, I say !! I'm getting more and more that way myself

[sejintenej]

I wrote a long piece about how some alternative churches use very specific harmonics in their music which have deep effects on the human body. I scrapped it as not being of interest but then listened to Zappa's "A little Green Rosetta" which has them.
Other users: Macumba (black and white magic) drummers in Brazil
Voodoo drummers
Akan drummers in Ghana
Russian radio transmitters during the Cold War - tested (apparently very successfully) on the citizens of a town in Ontario,

Some speakers use "tricks" which have the effect of getting their message across very successfully. Churchill and Obama (and Hitler) were users of such methods as are some evangelical preachers. If you want to get ahead (whether legitimately, as a for example a teacher, or otherwise) learn the tricks of the masters such as repeating the key points three times (very minor changes allowed) and looking at the eyes.

There is of course a third class of methods of getting your message across - subliminal messaging - but it is al least in theory illegal in the UK

[Fjgrogan]

Ah - now I wonder whether it is the effect of the 'specific harmonics' that made me have difficulty understanding what is being said/sung in the Frank Zappa pieces. I thought maybe it was an early sign of incipient deafness and/or the galloping senility. David, you may have just saved my sanity!

[Angela Woodford]

"basically the simpler and more repetitive your songs are, the easier it becomes to break down intellectual/critical barriers."

Shine, Jesus, Shine!

Alan,you might like the Kit and the Widow parody I posted some time ago in a "SJS" thread. Or perhaps you know it.

I believe that Oswald Mosley employed a hypnotic dilated-pupil-flashing-eye trick; for seductive purposes.

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

This is fascinaring stuff --but I think is way over my head !

If Pamela, our Rector, flashes her eyes at me, during her Sermon on Sunday ----- I suspect my subliminal reaction will be to head for the hills !!

[Fjgrogan]

Well I am now conscientiously listening to Frank Zappa clips to the bitter end, but I can't say I like him any better! However, would anyone like to join me in a Society for the Suppression of Graham Kendrick, who never seems to manage to tie up his words with the music that they are set to? (sorry, pedants!)

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

Sorry to dis-agree but I think Graham Kendrick is the only good, modern, hymn writer -- I agree about some of the others !!!

[Fjgrogan]

Graham Kendrick's words are not bad - I just wish they would connect better to the tune! I have an abiding image in my head of a Moslem friend of Maria's at her wedding singing Shine Jesus Shine. when we invited him to the wedding we were hesitant about whether he would want to come to the church or just to the reception. He insisted, quite rightly, that the church was the important bit, but then offered to bring along some halal food for the reception, which was basically a barbecue in the back garden. Such is life in multicultural Leicester! I also remember a member of our church housegroup in her 90s and getting rather deaf and blind, who insisted that we should sing Shine Jesus Shine at her funeral because 'there might be some younger people there' - there were, rather a lot of them!

[Angela Woodford]

Here you are, Alan!

I hope that the sensitive and Evangelical will not be upset!

"Jesus, see us proudly stand
Here with our groovy band
Jesus loving you makes us so happy
Jesus, what a shame the music's so completely crappy

Jesus don't you think it's great
Hymns to which the young relate
Oh God, why then is it so, God
Everything's at least a generation out of date

Jesus though the beat is hot
Mozart I'm afraid it's not
Jesus you inspire us with your karma
Or, if not inspired, just a bit more than Bananarama

Jesus it's a rank disgrace
How, God, just the human race
Fashion first the St Matthew Passion
Then the sort of dross that even Cliff could hardly face -

Jesus as one more guitar
Plods through Kumbah - frigging- yah
Jesus don't you want to sink an axe
Deep down in our brightly-coloured nylon pac-a-macs

Jesus, as thy bounds advance
Music doesn't really stand a chance
Still, God, though it makes you ill, God
What is really horrible is when we start to dance..."

[Fjgrogan]

Come back Graham Kendrick - all is forgiven!

[sejintenej]

I wrote a long piece about how some alternative churches use very specific harmonics in their music which have deep effects on the human body. ,

Some speakers use "tricks" which have the effect of getting their message across very successfully. Churchill and Obama (and Hitler) were users of such methods as are some evangelical preachers. If you want to get ahead (whether legitimately, as a for example a teacher, or otherwise) learn the tricks of the masters such as repeating the key points three times (very minor changes allowed) and looking at the eyes.

There is of course a third class of methods of getting your message across - subliminal messaging - but it is al least in theory illegal in the UK

This is actually a very interesting area to look into. A lot of the old Nazi rally songs had a very specific harmonic basis which resulted in them being popular and "uplifting".

When I played piano in one of these churches I was quite disturbed by the power I seemed to be exerting over the congregation. There is an element of self hypnosis involved which breaks down the critical faculties in time for the sermon, basically the simpler and more repetitive your songs are, the easier it becomes to break down intellectual/critical barriers. I'll try and dig up some stuff on this and get back to you.

From memory 3cps was one of the harmonics used and was close to the transmissions from Fylingdales.
In contrast to the last method mentioned below I understand that it was intended as a method of reducing the fighting ability / resistance of an enemy by making them feel ill - that is what happened to a big proportion of people in the Ontario test site (over 50% of the population in one morning).

The second method works by a form of persuasion either by repetition or by making the listener feel comfortable with you as either an ally or having the listeners' aims (like "Make Germany Great" or similar).

You mention hypnosis which I hadn't thought of when I penned my piece. It works in a different way but also can be used as a method of persuasion. Normally a hypnotist cannot tell the subject to do something which the subject would not do under normal circumstances but there are ways around that. The classic is to tell a pretty girl that she is alone on a tropical beach with nobody in view. Next, it is getting hot and why doesn't she remove some of her clothes .......
That said, physical objects can also cause sleepiness similar to hypnosis; the coast road south of Genoa has alternate pillars and gaps in the rock - drive through in sunlight and the alternate sun/shadow has a bad effect. I understand that in the early days of night-time helicopter flight the moon being eclipsed by rotating blades was considered responsible for some accidents.

Listening to one of those involved behind Abba, one of them felt that they had developed something which attracted listeners and which was repeated in many of their records; I don't know what it was but harmonics attuned to the human body? Make up your own mind.

This is a huge area and you can bet that the US military is working hard on it. OTOH you can bet that there are those who will poo-hoo the whole idea.

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

There was a young man from Japan
Who's poems, never would scan.
When his friends said "The thing
Doesn't go with a swing"
He replied "Yes I know, but I always try to get as many words as possible into the last line ! "

Which I think fits the scansion of Angela's contribution, perfectly !

[Angela Woodford]

From Alan's link!

" NASA-funded scientists suggest that astronauts might prevent bone loss by standing on a lightly vibrating plate for 10 to 20 minutes each day."

It's Power Plate! But gyms and beauty salons use it to firm those wobbly bits.

Madonna is a devotée. (One can pay extra for Power Plate at a local gym.)

Therefore... if astronauts use it - Madonna uses it....



Madonna could be blasted way, way out to a far galaxy! Hooray!

"Taxi! I'll get me coat" as JR would say. Back to topic.