Who's the Minister for Men?

[englishangel]

On the other side, one of the best, most empathic student midwives I ever worked with was a young man from New Zealand. The on-call midwife on my team called me at 2pm on Christmas Day 1997 to say there was a woman in labour. When I arrived she told me that Martin had been there when she started at 7.30am, having been called when the woman called at 4.30am. The baby was born at 4.30 pm, delivered by Martin, and then he stayed a further hour to complete the paperwork (unnecessary as it was my -the trained midwife- responsibility), and made sure Mum and baby were clean and comfortable.

[J.R.]

On the other side, one of the best, most empathic student midwives I ever worked with was a young man from New Zealand. The on-call midwife on my team called me at 2pm on Christmas Day 1997 to say there was a woman in labour. When I arrived she told me that Martin had been there when she started at 7.30am, having been called when the woman called at 4.30am. The baby was born at 4.30 pm, delivered by Martin, and then he stayed a further hour to complete the paperwork (unnecessary as it was my -the trained midwife- responsibility), and made sure Mum and baby were clean and comfortable.

That's really nice, Mary.

Especially today, when I have heard that men are now being discouraged from going into midwifery, for the 'obvious' reasons.

Having said that, I can fully accept and understand any prospective 'Mum' preferring a female midwife.

[Hannoir]

Out of curiousity, what would a Minister for Men do?

When we had arguments about mens officers in student unions, we decided that they would organise beer drinking sessions, video games and football...so not much point then

[sejintenej]

Out of curiousity, what would a Minister for Men do?

Protect them, that's what! and why you might ask;

I was in a farm shop this morning and overheard a conversation between two female staff. It seems that the day before one of them was sitting on a bench outside waiting for a lift. When it came she got in the car and was driven away, leaving her handbag on the bench (stupid cow!)
The two women agreed that the woman's forgetfulness was solely the fault of the shop owner simply because he is a man!.


BTW - if you are in the Chelmsford area, 2 1/2 kg carrots OR 5 large brocolli heads OR three mangos OR 9 bananas OR 4 huge baking spuds - each 50 pence! Apples are expensive - 1 1/2 kg for 99 pence! 2 weeks ago I got 2 big pineapples in a bag and a bag of 9 lemons for 50 pence each bag. Tesco is .......... PM, (not email) for details

[loringa]

So when did things change in the Navy?

1990 - the date when all new entry female recruits joined the Service with an obligation to serve at sea. It was a slow and painful transition following a decision which completely caught the Navy's hierarchy by surprise. Armed Forces Minister Archie Hamilton in an attempt to curry favour with the Prime Minister posed the question in the Junior Rates' Dining Hall at HMS OSPREY some time around 1989 asking the WRNS there gathered which of them would like to serve at sea. The show of hands appeared overwhelmingly positive thus it became a case of 'make it so.' For the the first tranches of WRNS it was something of a shock when it became clear that the runs ashore they were looking forward to were actually only a very small part of what the sea going Navy did and there was a lot of cleaning, whole ship duties, exercises, operations, night watches and poor weather to contend with before the Ship tied up alongside somewhere exotic. The result was that many of the early sea volunteers exercised their right to revert to shore service only and it took some considerable time for things to settle down. It was not helped by large numbers of relatively senior officers at the time continuing to treat their female sailors completely differently from the men but that has thankfully largely been consigned to the history books. For the majority of personnel serving today, male and female, it is all they have ever known and the idea of a men-only Fleet must seem pretty strange. There are still relatively few female officers in senior positions but that is slowly starting to change as the recruits of the early 1990's start to be promoted to Commander and higher. The fact remains, however, that many high quality female officers leave in their mid to late 30's to have families; whilst some return to full time service many do not, presumably for the same reason as those other mothers who decide to care for their children rather than continue in full time paid employment. On the whole the Royal Navy is a pretty good employer but no employee is going to achieve their full potential if they are restricted in their employability for whatever reason. A very large number of women in the Services are married to other members of the Armed Forces and one partner of another will clearly need to be the primary carer. I know of a number of men who have chosen to become the 'stay ay home' parent but, as elsewhere, they are the minority. A long answer to a short question I know but it was undoubtedly the most significant change in the Royal Navy since the end of sail.

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

I asked TBA about Male Midwives -----

Her reply was "I havn't heard any complaints about male Gynocolgists !"

OOOPs !

[englishangel]

That's strange David, everything in this neck of the woods is my fault.

[sejintenej]

That's strange David, everything in this neck of the woods is my fault.

Obviously you took over my role when I left where you are; I'm glad it is in unsafe hands. Here it has (by definition) to be my fault.

[cstegerlewis]

Going back to JT's point, why is there a Minister for Women AND Equality, surely a Minister for Equality would be grammatically and philospophically correct, as it would cover all possible discrimination?

[J.R.]

An aquaintance of ours in in the Navy and is about to retire as a senior NCO after years of land and sea service.

He said the first years of going to sea with women on board was somewhat traumatic. Now, they are all just serving personnel on a ship and, in his view, women on board makes for a far more relaxed normal family life environment. There are even some quite high ranking women serving on ships now.

For the record, the U.S. Coastguard Service now have several female commanders in charge of their ships.

[marty]

Harriet Harman is the "Minister for Women and Equality"

Who's the Minister for Men?

If there isn't one, why isn't that completely unacceptable?

Same goes for the "Black Police Association" - where's the "White Police Association"??

J

Interesting questions and ones which I think should be examined more closely. The issue of discrimination is in my view too often tackled in the wrong way by forming specialist organisations such as the BPA etc. These groups, whilst good in intention, create divsion and actually enforce and highlight differences. If there is a problem with the Police Federation not representing black/ethnic minority officers than that needs to be tackled and addressed. By forming a breakaway group specifically for black officers this does not address any underyling problems that exist within the Police Federation - it simply creates an 'us and them' situation - it says: "you're not helping us so we'll form our own club over here away from you." Surely that creates a divide? Likewise the Minister for Women and Equality would be better named as the Minister for Equality. Whilst discrimination against women is more prevalent than against men it is not exclusive and the title held by Harman suggests that men never suffer discrimination. Not true. Men are discriminated against too (see the Fathers for Justice Campaign - perhaps it should be Parents for Justice ), paternity laws or the fact men retire at a later age.

My main point is that where inequalities and differences are prevalent they should be confronted and those doing the discriminating taken to task and held to account. Small, localised groups simply 'ghettoize' and even in some cases marginalise the very people they are set up to help.

[jhopgood]

I asked TBA about Male Midwives -----

Her reply was "I havn't heard any complaints about male Gynocolgists !"

OOOPs !

Maybe we should ask Prof. Ian Johnson, Head of Division of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, The University Of Nottingham and also Lamb B 59 - 67.
(We were both at junior school together and along with the late Michael (Joe) Froggatt, entered CH together)

[J.R.]

I can't recall him, John !

[Mid A 15]

I asked TBA about Male Midwives -----

Her reply was "I havn't heard any complaints about male Gynocolgists !"

OOOPs !

Maybe we should ask Prof. Ian Johnson, Head of Division of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, The University Of Nottingham and also Lamb B 59 - 67.
(We were both at junior school together and along with the late Michael (Joe) Froggatt, entered CH together)

I don't know if my memory is playing tricks or not but I have an image of watching a jazz band in Big School featuring Joe Froggatt. Is that feasible?

The chap I remember had darkish hair and wore black glasses.

[englishangel]

I think the answer to the original question is "all of them except Harriet Harman".