Andrew Wakefield

[Liz Jay]

I see he has now been vindicated by his studies being independently reproduced - funny the announcement (quietly!) of this should follow so hard on the heels of his latest public flogging.

I smell a rat or two

Liz

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

This Thread could run ----- and run !

[Mid A 15]

I see he has now been vindicated by his studies being independently reproduced - funny the announcement (quietly!) of this should follow so hard on the heels of his latest public flogging.

I smell a rat or two

Liz

Hear, Hear.

The vilification by the medical establishment and government of this courageous doctor has been a disgrace.

[J.R.]

Now you know why certain doctors wear face masks !

[loringa]

I see he has now been vindicated by his studies being independently reproduced - funny the announcement (quietly!) of this should follow so hard on the heels of his latest public flogging.

I smell a rat or two

Liz

Do you have a reference or can you post a link; I'd like to read what it has to say?

[Liz Jay]

Hi

Mmmm...cutting and pasting stuff not my best skill but it's on the "What Doctors Don't Tell You" website and newsletter

Liz

[englishangel]

http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.aspx?Id=3328

It is actually Wakefield's report from 1998, nothing new, and as the whole page is an ad for homeopathy and similar quackery I wouldn't set much store by it.

[Katharine]

http://www.wddty.com/mmr-doctor-proved- ... onest.html

I think this is the piece that Liz meant.

[englishangel]

The detox article just proves what I mean. If you are toxic from the air you breath etc. then any amount of 'detoxing' won't affect that. Your liver detoxes you and 'detoxing' just gives it a rest from all the muck you put into your body and allows it to get on with its job.

[Liz Jay]

There is masses of information out there.

From the allopathic drugs-and-surgery through to laying on of hands, keeping our bodies healthy can be a full-time project.

We need to keep our eyes and ears open (though not so open that our brains fall out....) and I for one would never dismiss homoeopathy, herbal remedies, Reiki, EFT (for starters) as quackery as I have seen people and animals both receive spectacular benefits from all these therapies.

I am always suspicious of the "money trail" - have learned to work out "who speaks, and why" - and am a huge fan of Philip Day, fearless investigative journalist and awesome public speaker, for his tireless work in exposing the weaknesses in the health industry. The MMR scandal, the cancer industry, food additives, kids on Ritalin etc etc

No doubt the debate will rage on, with Wakefield belittled and ostracised, and a smokescreen of half-truths thrown up until people lose interest in the subject.....

At the highest level, NOBODY would ever DARE even suggest that hey, this guy could be right, as it would cost the country untold millions in compensation and undermine all our confidence in the Government and Big Pharma and THAT would be an economic disaster. Unstabilise the system at your peril!!

Just the ramblings of an incense-burning fruitcake of course....

Liz

[Fjgrogan]

I know very little about homeopathy etc. I have had good, albeit delayed, results with acupuncture, which I have heard works well on animals too, so presumably cannot just be the placebo effect. My favourite though is nutritional therapy - you are what you eat basically -preferably Patrick Holford rather than Barbara Cartland though. Does anyone have any useful comments on that? And what I really need is the willpower to stick with it! I have just hit my highest weight ever and really have to do something to lose weight as well as generally stop feeling sick and tired.

[Jo]

I know very little about homeopathy etc. I have had good, albeit delayed, results with acupuncture, which I have heard works well on animals too, so presumably cannot just be the placebo effect. My favourite though is nutritional therapy - you are what you eat basically -preferably Patrick Holford rather than Barbara Cartland though. Does anyone have any useful comments on that? And what I really need is the willpower to stick with it! I have just hit my highest weight ever and really have to do something to lose weight as well as generally stop feeling sick and tired.

Not sure if it's exactly what you meant Frances, but my father suffered with psoriasis for about 20 years, seeing consultant dermatologists and trying all sorts of creams, potions, bath additives, etc. Eventually in desperation he went to see a homeopathic doctor, who prescribed him something (which I think was basically just to keep him coming back for consultations and further prescriptions - a bit naughty) but more importantly got him to change his diet. For a carnivore, he did brilliantly - gave up red meat, dairy, tomatoes, oranges, coffee, and possibly some other things I can't remember - and his psoriasis cleared up. It's possible he didn't need to give up all those things - with a bit of patience he could have done an elimination diet and narrowed down the guilty foods, but he stuck with it because the results were so good, so quickly.

Definitely proof for me that you are what you eat (in my case, too much!)

[icomefromalanddownunder]

http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.aspx?Id=3328

It is actually Wakefield's report from 1998, nothing new, and as the whole page is an ad for homeopathy and similar quackery I wouldn't set much store by it.

Just to set the scene: I am a reseach scientist employed, for my sins, by American Bigpharma.

I have seen humans and animals respond positively, in some cases dramatically, to alternative therapies that some may describe as quackery. I have no idea how most of the therapies elicit the response, maybe it's purely because they are administered by practitioners who listen to their clients and actually care about what they are doing.

[icomefromalanddownunder]

Just the ramblings of an incense-burning fruitcake of course....

Liz

Liz, I'm on the lookout for a hat (I think you know which design I mean) for you.

[Angela Woodford]

The hat! THAT HAT which we all love - magnifique!

Whilst thinking "alternative" I'd report the astonishing results of an acupuncturist registrar, who was allowed to practise at a hospital where I once worked.

And I'm absolutely in agreement with Caroline when she says

" I have no idea how most of the therapies elicit the response, maybe it's purely because they are administered by practitioners who listen to their clients and actually care about what they are doing."

I became very disillusioned with modern nursing. I believe in the power of hands-on nursing. Take pressure area care, for example - elderly patients nursed on huge bulky corrugated vibrating blow-up mattresses, which are plasticky, secrete crumbs and various other bits and pieces and into which sheets can't be tucked tidily. I greatly preferred to give proper care in a tidy bed with sympathetic hands.... there - don't get me started!

Sorry - have strayed a bit off Andrew Wakefield.