loringa wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:42 pm
Okay, so let's turn the subject back to Brexit which seems to be getting ever weirder by the day! Now that Boris appears to have sold Mrs May's deal to Parliament, albeit with a bit of a tweak on the backstop, The Farrago seems now to be calling on his wide-eyed loons to reject it. Has he seen the light and is about to reject Brexit? I think not, so what exactly is happening?
Now I do think that most Brexiteers recognise that Brexit will be be bad / very bad / dreadful / catastrophic (delete as appropriate) for the British economy but that doesn't seem to be changing many minds. A goodly number of Brexit supporters are obviously pensioners with their (admittedly limited) future protected by the triple lock on their pensions, but there are others who appear mainly to be located in the areas that will suffer most from our departure (like Port Talbot in South Wales). What, exactly, do these folk think they are going to get out of Brexit? I am making an assumption that no-one believes Boris's promise of a Brexit dividend of £350 million a week for the NHS and other good causes.
I keep getting asked by people out here: 'Why are you leaving the EU?' They know I can't answer convincingly and it is certainly not doing Brits' credibility much good at the moment even though I point out the the debates in parliament and the recourse to the courts are actually very positive evidence of democracy at work.
So, come on Brexiteers, explain what's in it for us in leaving the EU? I'll then be able to pass it on as none of (the admittedly very limited number) of my colleagues who support our leaving has been able to tell me.
Thanks
I too have no wish to get overly involved in a discussion here but will explain briefly why I voted LEAVE myself and still adhere to that principle although, like many, I am in despair at the obfuscation and mendacity of our politicians across the spectrum since the referendum.
Where to start on such a vast topic?
I suppose a good place would be accountability or rather lack of it within the EU. It does not sit easily with me that the true Supreme Court of the UK is not the talking shop Baroness Hale recently presided over to thwart Boris Johnson but the ECJ (European Court of Justice).
https://www.europeanlawmonitor.org/eu-l ... l-law.html
It also concerns me that so much UK legislation originates in the unelected European Commission to be rubber stamped by a European Parliament in which UK representation is less than 10% only,
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/ ... -many-meps and then nodded through by House of Commons MPs by way of Statutory Instuments without scrutiny.
https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-what ... uenced-eu/
I could elaborate further but will conclude this section by saying that I am a believer in the nation state as a manageable democratically accountable entity which is directly contrary to the well known 'ever closer union' ideals of the EU and its predecessors
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/docu ... xhibition/ In simplistic terms I do not want to be part of a POLITICAL European Union.
The EU has seeked to achieve further integration, aka ever closer union, historically via ECONOMIC means primarily. The Common Agricultural and Fisheries policies are arguably the best known examples but as time has gone on since we joined the original 'Common Market' back in 1972 virtually every industry and service has been affected by the EU and its predecessors to date.
Well over forty years of economic (and political) integration does mean that a pragmatic approach needs to be adopted to unravelling the UK from the EU if it does LEAVE in order to avoid any more disruption than is necessary to regain political freedom. My preferred option to achieve this would be to rejoin EFTA (European Free Trade Area), which the UK was a member of before joining the Common Market, as it would enable the UK to remain within the Single Market until such time as it may decide not to whilst simultaneously removing the UK from the shackles of the ECJ. Another bonus in this era of increasing globalisation would be the UK having its own independent seat on bodies making trade policy rather than being less than 10% (as exemplified by the UK share of the European Parliament mentioned above) of the EU seat.
The above is necessarily a brief explanation only of my thinking. If anyone is interested in reading a rather more articulate blog of LEAVE arguments this blog is interesting and generally well researched in my opinion:
http://eureferendum.com/
As to how to vote in the forthcoming election, at this stage I honestly don't know. I am thoroughly disillusioned with them all and I am someone who has always had an interest in politics. A spoilt paper is probably favourite at the moment.