Pe.A wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:16 am
My pointing out the differences in prospects/outlook etc of similar coloured people (i.e. Nigerians etc) is valid - and goes to show to some extent that the systemic and structural problems are also ones rooted within communities.
I was going to say it's not valid but, on reflection, I will say it is valid but makes my point.
What I have arguing is that systemic racism has prevented Black British people from achieving comparable representation in positions of power and wealth in the UK. I claim that systemic racism is complex and often unintentional. It manifests as underinvestment in schools and the local economy in predominantly Black areas, through gentrification and exclusion of Black communities, and through implicit bias in hiring, among many other things. It also manifests as increased likelihood of being stopped by police, of being subjected to police violence etc. What you seem to be trying to argue - please correct me if i am misinterpreting your perspective - is that Nigerian immigrants to the UK tend to perform well by general socio-economic criteria and, combined with the fact that there are poor white people, this invalidates the argument that systemic structural racism exists.
Now, you may be operating under a different definition of structural racism but, to be sure, the majority perspective is that this is not overt anti-black (or any other group) behavior but a combination of effects that serve to exclude specific groups from achieving comparable representation.
The problem with your Nigerian argument is that it doesn't hold up to any kind of detailed scrutiny for several reasons.
First, we're talking about immigrants. The briefest of searches reveals* that Black African immigrants to the UK are a diverse group of people but that geography tells us a lot about who they are likely to be. Nigerians represent one of, if not the, the largest group of immigrants into the UK from Africa. So under a completely random sampling, you're more likely to encounter successful Nigerian immigrants that, say, Angolan immigrants.
Second, West Africans are the group most likely to enter the UK holding a degree or other higher level qualification. The importance of this point is that these are folks coming to the UK with qualifications in hand. They have not been exposed to all of the structural issues that Black British people face.
Third, to make a fair comparison, look at immigrants from East Africa, where educational levels tend to be lower. These folks tend to not do as well as reflected by higher unemployment rates.
(*source for above information: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... jLPC0WwHp3
In statistical parlance, what we have here an ascertainment bias problem. In plain talk, the immigrant sample is biased towards highly educated people to begin with, many of whom move to the UK for work in the first place.
The fact that well-qualified, Black overseas workers are actively recruited and are successful in the UK does not negate that structural racism exists for Black Brits. If your definition of structural racism is basically to assume that there is a plot to keep Black people out of jobs, then yes that might fly. But, as I have repeatedly tried to stress, with research to back it up where possible, the impacts of structural racism are felt by those who have to navigate the system from bottom to top. It is death by a thousand cuts, rather than a single swift blow. All those little impacts that you accept might
be real accumulate to make it so much harder to do well and encourage folks to accept their lot in life before they can even get started. Some of those barriers exist for poor white people too, but not all of them. And that's why it's so much harder to make it when you're Black than it is when you're white.
To that end the BLM movement is flawed. I'm not doubting the sincerity of the people who generally support the sentiment. But the movement was founded on a clever statement and has been expertly marketed. The top brass are basically Marxist nutjobs - it's worth watching interviews on Youtube or their website just to see how mental they are. Wanting to do away with the Western-prescribed nuclear family, demanding that certain White people give their homes, defunding the police etc etc. It reminds me in a sense of George Orwell's Animal Farm
Here, your attempts to fashion reasoned arguments give way to conspiracy theories and ad-hominem attacks that do you a disservice. I don't really want to respond to it, except to say that the slogan has caught on precisely because it strikes a chord with many people and reflects an increasing sense of frustration with the barriers that people of color face both here and in the UK on a daily basis. The growing recognition of how ingrained systemic racism is and the desire among many to address it may have lead to a more widespread use of this slogan, but its bigger than the three women who coined the term now.