Bullying - the rights/wrong and your views.

J.R. · Post by **J.R.** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:53 pm

I trust my comments on bullying earlier didn't lead any of you to believe that I condone bullying, because I DON'T. I just feel that schools and other institutions do not do enough to stamp this loathsome behaviour out.

Our eldest Grand-Daughter was bullied continually when she went up to secondary school, but some very forceful visits by her Mum and myself to the school in question sorted the problem out. The threat of legal action against a school for their failure to care for the children in their charge works wonders !

Mid A 15 · Post by **Mid A 15** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:47 pm

This has developed into a thought provoking thread.

There are no "right" or "wrong" positions here. In my opinion bullying can be defined as subjecting another to your behaviour against their (the other's) will.

Given such a broad definition one persons bullying might be anothers good natured horse play. One can therefore only speak about one's own experience.

One certainty in all this though is that schools in general appear very, very reluctant to admit the existence of bullying. I have recounted elsewhere on the forum the tragic death of a child my oldest daughter knew from another school. Even after the tragic event the headmaster refused to acknowledge that bullying existed in his school.

I was a victim of bullying during some of my time at CH. In the sixties and seventies there was very much a no "grassing" culture so the authorities were rarely fully informed. I was just told to ignore the bullies which was difficult when the victim of multi person physical attacks. As a "late developer" many of the bullies were physically stronger than me.

However I grew a foot in a year and put a final stop to things by beating up one of the protagonists who had a "hard" reputation.

Not something I'm proud of but the bullies steered clear of me after that which was all I was concerned about at that time.

J.R. · Post by **J.R.** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:11 pm

I believe that its tomorrow the report on the Deepcut Barracks 'suicides' is published.

Should make very interesting reading !

Jude · Post by **Jude** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:21 pm

Mid A 15 wrote:This has developed into a thought provoking thread.

There are no "right" or "wrong" positions here. In my opinion bullying can be defined as subjecting another to your behaviour against their (the other's) will.

Hmm - does that mean who ever controls the tv remote and puts on the sports instead of a film is a bully? Or that when we as parents ensure our little ""darlings" Don't do something or "DO" do something (even if they do/don't want to do/not do it) argh I'm getting caught up in ever decreasing circles here - I'm too tired - been bullied by my inner sub concious and am deprived of sleep - so I guess I am bullying myself!

Argh - why does the world and humans have to be SO complicated p pass me some PROZAC NOW!!!!!!!!!

sejintenej · Post by **sejintenej** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:41 pm

May I suggest that we are involved here ina subject which deserves to be explored in great depth; I am not suggesting that it be dropped.

This thread started in respect of the deletion of certain posts and the expulsion (can I use that word accurately here?) of a subscriber. From all accounts (and I saw only one side of the story) it appears to have been justified and in any case Julian does have (and is accorded) plenipotentiary powers here.

Therefore can the threads be split?

As for bullying, it is within human nature for some to seek to enforce their will over others by any means possible. They simply have to be made to realise that such behaviour wil not be tolerated. There are those who claim that you have to understand such people - they are perhaps the real cause of the problem in that they create excuses for such behaviour. Unfortunately a simple talking to will not suffice - it is too soft. A year in a barred stone room might help but is more likely to make them more circumpect as was that person whose behaviour at CH put me in the sicker.

Jude · Post by **Jude** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:47 pm

sejintenej wrote:May I suggest that we are involved here ina subject which deserves to be explored in great depth; I am not suggesting that it be dropped.

This thread started in respect of the deletion of certain posts and the expulsion (can I use that word accurately here?) of a subscriber. From all accounts (and I saw only one side of the story) it appears to have been justified and in any case Julian does have (and is accorded) plenipotentiary powers here.

Therefore can the threads be split?

As for bullying, it is within human nature for some to seek to enforce their will over others by any means possible. They simply have to be made to realise that such behaviour wil not be tolerated. There are those who claim that you have to understand such people - they are perhaps the real cause of the problem in that they create excuses for such behaviour. Unfortunately a simple talking to will not suffice - it is too soft. A year in a barred stone room might help but is more likely to make them more circumpect as was that person whose behaviour at CH put me in the sicker.

David you ask too much - J&S can't split the thread as it has become too interwoven - you obviously don't knit! However, yes it is very interesting that this topic raises it's head frequently and in various threads throughout the forum - perhaps we should all meet and hold an open face forum (at a mental institute of someones choosing - Wootton Lawn here is quite nice I hear!! ) - it is clear that the levels of bullying change as to how you were bullied, how "soft" you are/were, the age it happened, how long it lasted etc... and everyone has a different view - just as well or we would all be as bored as Hell in here!

bon soir

Hendrik · Post by **Hendrik** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:09 am

the gandhi quote which someone nearly got right is: 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind'. it is one of my favourites... and has absolutely no relevance. re someone's iraq war comment, what the hell has oil got to do with punching bullies?

this isn't 'justice' this about sticking up for yourself. those of you (exclusively one gender, unsurprisingly) who think that if you rat on a bully the problem goes away, are deluded. i whole-heartedly agree with your morals but in practice it doesn't work.

if you tell your housemaster that you are being bullied, the accusations are generally thrown out due to lack of evidence. this gets you seriously beaten and bullied not only by the bully, but by his friends. not just the next day but until they are no longer in your house (so several years).

if you have a witness to the bullying, the housemaster cannot count this as concrete evidence, so will make the two of you (yes, you and the bully) have a sit down and a chat. this makes you look like a complete idiot, and [see above reprocussions]

only if the bully is seen by a member of staff will he really get punished. even then the same reprocussions from his friends apply.

i'm not saying you ladies don't know what bullying is, but coming from the coed era at CH i know that bullying experienced in boys houses -especially before the junior-senior merge- is in a different league to the bullying in girls houses and cannot be solved in the same way.

Mrs C. · Post by **Mrs C.** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:38 am

It`s sometimes very difficult for a housemaster to establish the truth if the person who is being bullied refuses to say so, even though it may be well known that they are.
I think to say that accusations are generally thrown out due to lack of evidence is to a large extent incorrect. Houseparents, tutors, whoever, can only go so far in trying to solve the problem if the person being bullied won`t cooperate. Whilst I realise that this is out of fear of possible repercussions, one example springs to mind where the bully was eventually "pinned down" and the friends of the bully backed off - they were too scared of him and how he might treat them if they didn`t go along with the bullying and were only too pleased that he had been caught and punished - they were then able to stop doing something they felt uncomfortable with.
OK - this may not always be the case, but I think that the fear of being bullied is often greater than the fear of being branded a bully.

Jude · Post by **Jude** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:45 am

Hendrik wrote:the gandhi quote which someone nearly got right is: 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind'. it is one of my favourites... and has absolutely no relevance. re someone's iraq war comment, what the hell has oil got to do with punching bullies?

this isn't 'justice' this about sticking up for yourself. those of you (exclusively one gender, unsurprisingly) who think that if you rat on a bully the problem goes away, are deluded. i whole-heartedly agree with your morals but in practice it doesn't work.

if you tell your housemaster that you are being bullied, the accusations are generally thrown out due to lack of evidence. this gets you seriously beaten and bullied not only by the bully, but by his friends. not just the next day but until they are no longer in your house (so several years).

if you have a witness to the bullying, the housemaster cannot count this as concrete evidence, so will make the two of you (yes, you and the bully) have a sit down and a chat. this makes you look like a complete idiot, and [see above reprocussions]

only if the bully is seen by a member of staff will he really get punished. even then the same reprocussions from his friends apply.

i'm not saying you ladies don't know what bullying is, but coming from the coed era at CH i know that bullying experienced in boys houses -especially before the junior-senior merge- is in a different league to the bullying in girls houses and cannot be solved in the same way.

Hendrik
1: you obvioulsy never listend to you RE lessons, or you would have realised that an eye for an eye comes from the OLD TESTAMENT, not a Ghandi film quote.
2: You obvioulsy have come late into this discussion, which Julian and Simon have trimmed, you might have realised that much of what was discussed is totally fathomable unlike any of your arguments in here.
3: the Iraq quote at the begining of this thread was that violence breeds violence.
4 : the majority of us who had been discussing the topic Do and DID know VERY MUCH what BULLYING IS, and we were discussing various ways of changing it in today's societies...

So before you start writing soemthing it might be better that you read the entire thread and not the bits you feel only apply to you.

As for us girls not getting bullied - you haven't read the Hertford memories - several of the girls were more than physically bullied, and as all schools have a non grassing system they remain a silent group.

I was very angry with your trite comments, and also very hurt - I have ammended what I wrote, as those who were on line at the time will see, but I do think you perhaps have jumped in without reading all that was written.

Mrs C. · Post by **Mrs C.** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:49 am

Hendrik wrote:
i'm not saying you ladies don't know what bullying is, but coming from the coed era at CH i know that bullying experienced in boys houses -especially before the junior-senior merge- is in a different league to the bullying in girls houses and cannot be solved in the same way.

Girls may use different tactics to bully someone, but it is just as cruel

Mid A 15 · Post by **Mid A 15** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:49 am

Jude wrote:
Hendrik wrote:the gandhi quote which someone nearly got right is: 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind'. it is one of my favourites... and has absolutely no relevance. re someone's iraq war comment, what the hell has oil got to do with punching bullies?

this isn't 'justice' this about sticking up for yourself. those of you (exclusively one gender, unsurprisingly) who think that if you rat on a bully the problem goes away, are deluded. i whole-heartedly agree with your morals but in practice it doesn't work.

if you tell your housemaster that you are being bullied, the accusations are generally thrown out due to lack of evidence. this gets you seriously beaten and bullied not only by the bully, but by his friends. not just the next day but until they are no longer in your house (so several years).

if you have a witness to the bullying, the housemaster cannot count this as concrete evidence, so will make the two of you (yes, you and the bully) have a sit down and a chat. this makes you look like a complete idiot, and [see above reprocussions]

only if the bully is seen by a member of staff will he really get punished. even then the same reprocussions from his friends apply.

i'm not saying you ladies don't know what bullying is, but coming from the coed era at CH i know that bullying experienced in boys houses -especially before the junior-senior merge- is in a different league to the bullying in girls houses and cannot be solved in the same way.

Hendrik
1: you obvioulsy never listend to you RE lessons, or you would have realised that an eye for an eye comes from the OLD TESTAMENT, not a Ghandi film quote.
2: You obvioulsy have come late into this discussion, which someone has cut 2 pieces from to make a new thread, and it no longer actually follows the thread (?Julian and Simon) you would have realised that much of what was discussed is totally fathomable unlike any of your arguments in here.
3: the Iraq quote (now missing) was that violence breeds violence.
4 : the majority of us who had been discussing the topic Do and DID know VERY MUCH what BULLYING IS, and we were discussing various ways of changing it in today's societies...

So before your fire your guns at me - which is certainly how I feel, please check that you are firing at the right person and in the right direction. My son a year older than you tried to commit suicide at CH - so I'm afraid your saying I know nothing about bullying (having had 5 years of it at Hertford) just makes me bl**dy annoyed - yes Julian you can censor it but not before this whipersnapper appologies

I don't think I have ever been so annoyed by one person in here, let alone made to feel that the bullying we girls and you OB's sufferd wasn't real. I'm not sure I will bother to post anymore I am that annoyed and hurt

Jude,

You yourself have previously said the forum would be dull if we all agreed on everything.

Please don't let your upset with one poster stop you from posting.

I for one would be sorry to see you go even if you do have a pop at me somtimes

Great Plum · Post by **Great Plum** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:18 am

OK, - we need to take a step back here a little.

I am inclined to agree with Hendrik here - that is to say that bullying in the boy's houses (when I was at CH - 1992-99) did occur and many children did worry about further bullying if the bullies were 'grassed up'.

What I don't agree with Hendrik is that girls do not experience bullying- maybe not physical bullying but mental bullying which can leave a far longer scar.

I know Hendrik quite well and I beleive that he is a thinker 'out of the box' and often says some somewhat controversial things.

I fear that you may have taken it the wrong way on this occasion Jude - I don't think (although I cannot speak for Hendrik) that he deliberately set to wind you up. This is the difficulty of internt forums.

I, for one, hope that you do not stop posting here Jude.

Jude · Post by **Jude** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:58 am

Great Plum wrote:OK, - we need to take a step back here a little.

I am inclined to agree with Hendrik here - that is to say that bullying in the boy's houses (when I was at CH - 1992-99) did occur and many children did worry about further bullying if the bullies were 'grassed up'.

What I don't agree with Hendrik is that girls do not experience bullying- maybe not physical bullying but mental bullying which can leave a far longer scar.

I know Hendrik quite well and I beleive that he is a thinker 'out of the box' and often says some somewhat controversial things.

I fear that you may have taken it the wrong way on this occasion Jude - I don't think (although I cannot speak for Hendrik) that he deliberately set to wind you up. This is the difficulty of internt forums.

I, for one, hope that you do not stop posting here Jude.

Plum darling, we girls didn't only suffer the psycholigical bullying, if you go and look through some of the Hertford memories, you will see that many of us wre physicaly bullied, and the idea of grassing was as ever a no go area. What Riled me was that Hendrik has obviously not bothered to read everything all wrote, and has pulled things out of context. The entire of his post was aimed at the so called gentler sex - well guys, for those of you who havent' looked I suggest you go into the thread childbirth as you may well show you that we are by far more tuned to pain and have to suffer it a great deal. I wonder what Hendriks mother felt when she gave birth! I'm sure she wasn't thinking about Ghandi!

Jude · Post by **Jude** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:19 pm

Therefore can the threads be split?

As for bullying, it is within human nature for some to seek to enforce their will over others by any means possible. They simply have to be made to realise that such behaviour wil not be tolerated. There are those who claim that you have to understand such people - they are perhaps the real cause of the problem in that they create excuses for such behaviour. Unfortunately a simple talking to will not suffice - it is too soft. A year in a barred stone room might help but is more likely to make them more circumpect as was that person whose behaviour at CH put me in the sicker.[/quote]

David you ask too much - J&S can't split the thread as it has become too interwoven - you obviously don't knit!
bon soir[/quote]

Well David the threads did get split, and with them I lost control.... i will edit it out as Hendrik will learn that in time getting it all wrong is the norm!

Bullying goes on and on, and no one says anything because to do so would make them lose face..

I have just had a row with my son, who after smoking cannabis too much I asked to find alternative accomodation.. he took that as I threw him out.... today he arrives in car no 8 to "fix" car no 7 which has been sitting on my drive now for 4 months - to say I am peed off with a smashed windscreen rusting car on my drive is being kind... twice I have given him the chance to sort it out. He forgot Mothers day until he sister texted him, he threw that back in my face today, so I asked why he always come here unprepared to do the things he said he wanted to do (today was to put something on the white car, but not fix it, and the red car soundsl ike a tractor...) with that he stormed out and said he wouldn't bother to come home again. So perhaps today I have bullied him as I am fed up of having a rusting heap on my drive, and that I am taken for granted and will always provide the tools for him to use, loose or break... Or is he being a bully by not apologising for not bothering to say sorry about Mothers Day, and for generally trying to get me to do things for him? Yes I know parents help their offspring, but when it is take take take I am afraid I get a bit cross and will not give anymore - if he had really wanted to fix his car - surely he would have arrived with the tools to do it?

Great Plum · Post by **Great Plum** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:24 pm

Jude wrote:
Great Plum wrote:OK, - we need to take a step back here a little.

I am inclined to agree with Hendrik here - that is to say that bullying in the boy's houses (when I was at CH - 1992-99) did occur and many children did worry about further bullying if the bullies were 'grassed up'.

What I don't agree with Hendrik is that girls do not experience bullying- maybe not physical bullying but mental bullying which can leave a far longer scar.

I know Hendrik quite well and I beleive that he is a thinker 'out of the box' and often says some somewhat controversial things.

I fear that you may have taken it the wrong way on this occasion Jude - I don't think (although I cannot speak for Hendrik) that he deliberately set to wind you up. This is the difficulty of internt forums.

I, for one, hope that you do not stop posting here Jude.
Plum darling, we girls didn't only suffer the psycholigical bullying, if you go and look through some of the Hertford memories, you will see that many of us wre physicaly bullied, and the idea of grassing was as ever a no go area. What Riled me was that Hendrik has obviously not bothered to read everything all wrote, and has pulled things out of context. The entire of his post was aimed at the so called gentler sex - well guys, for those of you who havent' looked I suggest you go into the thread childbirth as you may well show you that we are by far more tuned to pain and have to suffer it a great deal. I wonder what Hendriks mother felt when she gave birth! I'm sure she wasn't thinking about Ghandi!

I think you will be pleased to know that physical bullying with the girls at Ch is now much reduced from the times you have mentioned