Would you Believe It ???

[cj]

Cath, I do so agree with all that - especially the first paragraph which is brilliant. Thank you!

Thank you, dearheart. I feel valued!!!! However I suspect some would accuse me of woolly liberal-ism (with a small 'l'). But it's all about taking responsibility - for the upbringing of your kids, for the choices and decisions (good and bad) that we all make and mostly for the mistakes that inevitably occur. Life is about growing and learning through the hardships that we endure. No-one's life runs smoothly or to plan, but a hiccup doesn't have to end in disaster. Support systems are available to everyone, especially if you don't have them ready made in families and friends.

[englishangel]

I agree in principle, however some people have very warped perceptions and the perception is what counts.

We had family counselling for daughter's anger management after the ankle biting episode and some of the perceptions she came out with were unrecognisable to the rest of us.

I have read quite a lot of forensic psychology books, and there are certainly some sociopaths who should NEVER be released as they cannot accept that what they have done is wroong (whatever it is, whether murder, rape or paedophilia).

[cj]

there are certainly some sociopaths who should NEVER be released as they cannot accept that what they have done is wroong (whatever it is, whether murder, rape or paedophilia).

Fortunately they seem to be a minority of cases, and prison or secure accommodation is the right place for them. Interestingly, most of the people in that category have come from vile backgrounds with terrible upbringings. Would they have become the same person if those circumstances had been different?

I read somewhere that a substantial percentage of serial-killers (in the US) had suffered a severe trauma to the head that had caused the socio/psychopathic tendencies.

[sejintenej]

I read somewhere that a substantial percentage of serial-killers (in the US) had suffered a severe trauma to the head that had caused the socio/psychopathic tendencies.

severe blow to the head? Are we talking about being kicked in the head and then being dragged down the stairs after being shot in the chest / shoulder? Perhaps the future victims should sue now so they can enjoy the money

[Tim_MaA_MidB]

Maybe they were beaten by their socio/psychopathic parents ...and so the cycle continues!

[J.R.]

Maybe they were beaten by their socio/psychopathic parents ...and so the cycle continues!

...... as sponsored by Sir Walter RALEIGH ?

[englishangel]

I found this today and thought it fitted well in here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5086978.stm

[J.R.]

I think even sceptical people will now know why I hold the views that I do, after reading that BBC article !

JUSTICE ? WHAT JUSTICE ????

[ben ashton]

Life should mean life if for pre-meditated murder
State murder ie. dealth penalty should never be allowed, nor should injury of offenders (eg. removal of hands for stealing in some islam states etc.)
Long term prison sentences should only be given to those who injure another
Stealing etc can be dealt with by externally, possibly with the introduction of closed communities for more serious offences (eg. curfews, surveillance)
'First offender's' should receive penalties serious enough to deter repetition

[J.R.]

Life should mean life if for pre-meditated murder
State murder ie. dealth penalty should never be allowed, nor should injury of offenders (eg. removal of hands for stealing in some islam states etc.)
Long term prison sentences should only be given to those who injure another
Stealing etc can be dealt with by externally, possibly with the introduction of closed communities for more serious offences (eg. curfews, surveillance)
'First offender's' should receive penalties serious enough to deter repetition

Well, Ben ! You and I will have to agree to disagree. Far too liberalistic for my taste.

"Long term prison sentences should only be given to those who injure another."

I take it you don't include the child molesting scum that mentally injure young children for life as physical injury may not occur ?

I'd like to see them go through the trap-door, preferably from a couple of feet away !

[ben ashton]

*woops, meant both physical and mental injury

[sejintenej]

Life should mean life if for pre-meditated murder
State murder ie. dealth penalty should never be allowed, nor should injury of offenders (eg. removal of hands for stealing in some islam states etc.)
Long term prison sentences should only be given to those who injure another
Stealing etc can be dealt with by externally, possibly with the introduction of closed communities for more serious offences (eg. curfews, surveillance)
'First offender's' should receive penalties serious enough to deter repetition

I assume you mean that for pre-meditated killing the convicted person will never ever see the outside of goal.

Long prison sentences: make it very long without luxuries.

Curfews and surveillance doesn't work; they already use collars or whatever and the criminals either cut them off or simply ignore them. Keep them in goal for a long time as a real deterrent

Otherwise I agree with you.

Peeps talk about the cost of keeping a criminal in goal. The reason is the softnesses. They often live far better than outside. It should be easy to pour concrete to create a nest of cells with 18 inch by 18 inch "doors" and a concrete bed. One blanket. One light bulb in the ceiling and a loo hole in the floor. Leave them to it except for a cold water hosing down once a week. That way you only need one warder on duty per hundred prisoners

If they get out they would rather die than go back.

[Katharine]

Did anyone hear Any Answers yesterday? A convicted rapist, out on parole, said that if the chances of parole for lifers was removed, discipline inside prisons would completely break down. In many cases, these offenders are the best behaved inside as they want parole. A Warder who was also on at the time agreed. Our prison system would not cope without any co-operation from the prisoners.

[englishangel]

Did anyone hear Any Answers yesterday? A convicted rapist, out on parole, said that if the chances of parole for lifers was removed, discipline inside prisons would completely break down. In many cases, these offenders are the best behaved inside as they want parole. A Warder who was also on at the time agreed. Our prison system would not cope without any co-operation from the prisoners.

No I didn't, but in the US cells are built just like sejintenej describes, except no door, just bars, no pariole for lifers, and the death penalty, I haven't noticed the murder rate dropping over there.

What DOES seem to work is zero tolerance. In New York people are arrested for minor offences such as writing graffiti, spitting and littering, they are made to think about other people.

New York is now one of the safest cities in the US.

[Ruthie-Baby(old a/c)]

Really interesting topic.

Shame it isn't called something more relevant so I can find it again when I have time to read everything in more depth.