Police Cadets

huntertitus · Post by **huntertitus** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:24 pm

Unkind, surely?

I don't think the sheep are willing accomplices

They fancy other sheep.

J.R. · Post by **J.R.** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:31 pm

huntertitus wrote:Unkind, surely?

I don't think the sheep are willing accomplices

They fancy other sheep.

EWE can't pull the WOOL over my eyes !!!

huntertitus · Post by **huntertitus** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:36 pm

SHEAR brilliance!

I'm off to the BAA for a drink!

Katharine · Post by **Katharine** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:50 pm

Katharine wrote:
soc wrote:I am all for people using their own language but not to the degree that English is more or less banned in parts of north wales
Remind me to respond to this later.

Later has come now!

I live in one of the most Welsh speaking areas of North Wales. I do not have very much Welsh but understand a fair bit. I really do not recognise the country so many of you are talking about. In many parts of Gwynedd Welsh is the mother tongue of the majority and it is the language of the home. Is it surprising that two Welsh people will speak Welsh to each other?

Many English visitors do not accept that Wales is a Principality it is NOT England. They are not surprised to hear French spoken if they go for a holiday in France, why should they be surprised to hear Welsh spoken here?

As far as I understand it, the only places where English is actually banned are the total immersion language schools - and you would only go there to learn Welsh by that system.

I have never found it a problem that I do not speak Welsh. I am not learning it through any classes - I don't have the time for that. I believe that I am an accepted part of my community because I have respect for other people's way of life and language. I may be more tolerant than some because I have lived in multi-lingual societies most of my adult life or perhaps because I was educated at CH!!!

And that my friends will bring me my buttons - rather than yet another addition to Mallet's Mallet!!

Great Plum · Post by **Great Plum** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:03 pm

a good post for your buttons!!

UserRequestedRemoval · Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:27 pm

As one of those who mentioned Welsh langauage, it is not for me that they speak their native tongue that is a problem. It is rather the attitude one encounters when visiting the area.

Many is the time I have walked into a shop to buy something or worse, ask for directions, and been greeted with a stone wall of Welsh. In the vast majority of schools English and Welsh are taught as far as I am aware so it is usually not that they can not speak English it is that they choose not to use it. I always greet everyone with a smile and apologise for taking their time but I still get the stonewall. This only seems to happen in the area around Bangor which I find very strange since the area should be well used to lots of outsiders.

I agree that Welsh should be taught but so should English if for no other reason than it will be an advantage for them to be able to speak it. I just don't understand why English visitors do seem to get such a raw deal.

sejintenej · Post by **sejintenej** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:27 pm

Wales isn't the only place to have a minority language. For many decades the use of Catalan could put one in prison (and they aren't nice prisons) and peeps used to wear a pin in the back of their lapel to sihgnify their opposition to the foreign intruders. Went back there a few weks ago and almost nobody now speaks Catalan - even old friends despite the fact that they can now legally speak it freely.

In this area the use of Oc (as in the region of the "Langue d'Oc") - the original of which Catalan is a patios / dialect was actively discouraged. Now the government has belatedly acknowledged that 2 million people speak the language and it is an optional subject in the Bac. Locally I have come across older people who genuinely can't speak French whilst the younger will clearly switch from Oc to French if outsiders (except Parisians) are around. Even the village name sign is in the two languages and many street names ditto. No barriers, no pressue on outsiders (except Parisians but they are another race) and plenty of friendship. Do I speak Oc now? - no, I can just about read it but that is the limit ...........

What a pity that the Welsh speakers have to be like Parisians

Katharine · Post by **Katharine** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:46 pm

I really do find these stories of Wales strange, I just do not recognise the country I have lived in for the last 10 years and visited frequently for the previous 25. I have NEVER had encounters like Sean in Bangor or Caernarfon which has a far higher proportion of Welsh speakers. What I have experienced is the hostility (and rudeness at times) of some English visitors to people who are already holding a conversation in Welsh, sometimes when this conversation is in a queue or similar and nothing to do with anyone else. I can remember one time in Bournemouth when I was there for a conference with several Welsh speaking friends, it was my turn to buy the drinks, so while I was at the bar, the rest were speaking Welsh. A drunk came up to me and was quite abusive to me about my friends - because he could not eavesdrop on them his words eventually. I was quite amused that I should be the one defending their right to speak Welsh when I speak so little of the language!

englishangel · Post by **englishangel** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:44 am

I had a Welsh speaking friend at Uni, who was on the phone just outside one of the bars berating her boyfriend for something or other (in Welsh). The bloke waiting to use the phone looked rather amused. She went to the loo and when she came out said bloke was on the phone, speaking Welsh!!!

Richard Ruck · Post by **Richard Ruck** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:58 am

sejintenej wrote: In this area the use of Oc (as in the region of the "Langue d'Oc") - the original of which Catalan is a patios / dialect was actively discouraged. Now the government has belatedly acknowledged that 2 million people speak the language and it is an optional subject in the Bac. Locally I have come across older people who genuinely can't speak French whilst the younger will clearly switch from Oc to French if outsiders (except Parisians) are around. Even the village name sign is in the two languages and many street names ditto. No barriers, no pressue on outsiders (except Parisians but they are another race) and plenty of friendship. Do I speak Oc now? - no, I can just about read it but that is the limit ...........

Occitan was a fairly popular subject in the Lycee in Pamiers when I was there, and was spoken fairly widely by the stallholders at the weekly market.

I wish I'd taken the time to learn a bit.......

Incidentally, it seems that Scottish Gaelic is getting a bit stronger these days - still a way to go to catch up with Welsh, though. It's still really only seen as the language of the Highlands and Islands.

Ruthie-Baby(old a/c) · Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:07 am

I've a relative in the Inverness area (I've only got a few so she's important) and stayed up there for some time

I've only come across Gaelic in the musical world - I'm a proud member of Ceol Beo and probably the most southerly one!

But I think it is increasing too.

Richard Ruck · Post by **Richard Ruck** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:18 am

Ruthie-Baby wrote:I've a relative in the Inverness area (I've only got a few so she's important) and stayed up there for some time

I've only come across Gaelic in the musical world - I'm a proud member of Ceol Beo and probably the most southerly one!

But I think it is increasing too.

It probably helped that bands like Runrig and Capercaille, massively popular in Scotland, performed some of their songs in Gaelic. This must have raised the profile of the language.

Ruthie-Baby(old a/c) · Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:24 am

Richard Ruck wrote:
Ruthie-Baby wrote:I've a relative in the Inverness area (I've only got a few so she's important) and stayed up there for some time

I've only come across Gaelic in the musical world - I'm a proud member of Ceol Beo and probably the most southerly one!

But I think it is increasing too.
It probably helped that bands like Runrig and Capercaille, massively popular in Scotland, performed some of their songs in Gaelic. This must have raised the profile of the language.

True true

Good to meet you on Sun BTW - will post amusing Sunday story in Beer Fest thread soon...

Richard Ruck · Post by **Richard Ruck** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:28 am

Ruthie-Baby wrote: Good to meet you on Sun BTW

Likewise!

Off to Welton's brewery tomorrow night for the Old Ale launch.

UserRequestedRemoval · Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:41 pm

Perhaps it is a bit like the French. When I took the family to Euro Disney, I always tried a bit of French and I nearly always found that the French would then speak to me in English and help as much as they could. As soon as they met an American, they went beligerantly French on them saying that they don't speak English. This very often after serving me in English. My brother-in-law lives and works in Bangor, he has done for 8 years now and he still encounters problems being English.