Exclusion ?????? WHAT A JOKE !!!!

[J.R.]

I am absolutely gob-smacked.

I was waiting in number 2 son-in-law's vehicle outside a village shop this lunchtime. Three boys, with regulation hoodie jackets were idling around outside, generally doing s0d all. They were about 12/13 and should have been at school.

Police vehicle draws up containg a proper copper, (pc), and a cardboard copper, (community specialist), or whatever.

I winds down vehicle window, being nosey, as one should be. Names and address taken and checked.

Copper asks, "Why aren't you three at school ?"

"We're excluded !", comes the reply.

Cardboard copper verifys facts on phone to school. Exclusion story obviously confirmed by school.

Two Police persons wave the three hoodies a cheerful farewell, with a "Have a nice afternoon !"

I f'kin ask you - I am so annoyed ! They get excluded with gives them the equivalent of an eternal holiday.

Stick 'em in a boot camp, or even better, send them to Iraq or Afghanistan ! I bet they'd soon scream thay they wantred to get back to school !

[jtaylor]

Stick 'em in a boot camp, or even better, send them to Iraq or Afghanistan ! I bet they'd soon scream thay they wantred to get back to school !

Exactly - ASBOs are viewed as a badge-of-honour. The punishments/consequences have to be so boring that they want to be back at school. Even if they have to be curfewed (during school hours) if they're excluded, at least they wouldn't be out on the street and the police could assume that any child out during school hours shouldn't be there - no question.
The other one that bugs me is when police stop parents with kids out shopping, and the parent replies that the child is ill......if they're too ill for school, they're too ill for shoping too. They should be in bed, TV off, asleep or bored - they'll soon want to be back at school....

[midget]

Icouldn't agree more. Curfews for all of them

[marty]

Anyone ever watch Lad's Army on ITV? Most of the guys who complete the course end up agreeing that national service should be reinstated. I'd love to see national service make a come-back. It would take all these kids off the streets and teach them some discipline - something most of them clearly do not get from their parents. Or the police, whose powers are sadly curbed by the loony left and 'human rights'. I'm ranting again aren't I? I shall go and polish my Fiona Bruce photographs immediately and calm down....

[jhopgood]

I am not sure whether they have an exclusion policy in schools here in Spain but they certainly have a discipline problem.
I have a friend who teaches in a local school where there are immigrants, and she tells me that the best pupils, who really want to learn are those from Latin America, followed by the Spanish, other Europeans, (mainly Dutch and German) and by far the worst students are the Brits.
The Brits aren't interested in learning, and certainly not another language, every other word is a swear word and she gets no support from the parents, who appear disinterested.
I'd hesitate to say that the reason for their disinterest is that most of the parents work in the construction business and can see little need for an education, but that's the way my friend sees it.
So now we appear to have another export product, and many of the locals wish it was excluded.

[Hendrik]

the police, whose powers are sadly curbed by the loony left and 'human rights'.

go get yourself held without habeas corpus for a few days (no lawyer, no phone calls, no visiting, nobody told of your detention) like what happened to some asians i know recently. crime? owning a shop whilst being asian.
or maybe go get yourself shot in the back of the head seven times and once in the shoulder whilst being pinned down by two other officers. then tell me about police powers.

what more powers do they need? longer sticks? how about lassoos? monster trucks to run down terrorists? oooh, wait big fearsome helicopters they can absail off and look well 'ard. Karate chop action like GI Joe? or we could give them ALL guns! or RPGs! oblita-fry the bad guys!
we could bring back Thatcher's SPG and they could go around beating up blacks again! would that make you feel safer?



well it would be funny, but you probably thought you were making a serious point

[marty]

the police, whose powers are sadly curbed by the loony left and 'human rights'.

go get yourself held without habeas corpus for a few days (no lawyer, no phone calls, no visiting, nobody told of your detention) like what happened to some asians i know recently. crime? owning a shop whilst being asian.
or maybe go get yourself shot in the back of the head seven times and once in the shoulder whilst being pinned down by two other officers. then tell me about police powers.

what more powers do they need? longer sticks? how about lassoos? monster trucks to run down terrorists? oooh, wait big fearsome helicopters they can absail off and look well 'ard. Karate chop action like GI Joe? or we could give them ALL guns! or RPGs! oblita-fry the bad guys!
we could bring back Thatcher's SPG and they could go around beating up blacks again! would that make you feel safer?



well it would be funny, but you probably thought you were making a serious point

I think someone needs to come down off their high horse. The fact is that as you point out the police do have some very bizarre powers, yet they can't make a few kids go to school. The world is mad.

[jtaylor]

Re. Police powers - why is it that I pay more in car insurance than the fine which is issued to those without it??? Why when someone gives false details to the Police isn't this an extremely serious offence? The number of times I see people getting off on the Police Stop programs having lied about their identity - ridiculous.

If I had no morals, and deal feel a duty to follow the law, then the logic overwhelmingly dictate that I should not bother with insurance, tax, or a legal car - the consequences just aren't big enough to bother with them at all!
Action = consequence.........the consequence just doesn't out-weight the action in so many cases.

And another point:-
Stop and search - if statistically a certain edentifiable portion of the community commits more crimes, shouldn't that group be stopped more often (ideally in the ratio of committed crime?) Do we stop as many elderly people with walking sticks and head-scarves as we do teenagers with hoods?? No, quite sensibly. Should the police not use whatever demographic knowledge they have to maximise the chance of prevents/detecting crime?

J

[J.R.]

I'm afraid this Country is going to the dogs !

Would the last person to leave please turn the lights out ?

Jan and I are in regular contact with someone she used to work with. He served all his normal working life as a prison officer, before going into social care part time on retirement. To give you some idea how long he was in the job, he was one of the last prison officers to serve on death watch. (3 officers per condemmed man).

He dispares now, still keeping in touch with the service as an advisor. Prison Officers are NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE any PHYSICAL contact with prisoners, except to protect prisioners from themselves, (self harmers); Protect prisoners from other prisoners or to cary out AUTHORISED body searches.

First they stop teachers from punishing kids, then they turn prisons into 5 star hotels.

Sorry Hendik, I can't agree with anything you wrote above. You must have had an easy time at CH ! I can still hear the whistle of the cane before it made contact with my breeches !

[DavebytheSea]

Sorry Hendik, I can't agree with anything you wrote above. You must have had an easy time at CH ! I can still hear the whistle of the cane before it made contact with my breeches !

Which really proves the point I have made elsewhere. Those who are subjected to violence etc. are the very ones who believe in it. The fact that statistics show that such punishment is ineffectual is ignored by those who argue for birching, death by hanging, frequent application of the cane to wayward children etc etc.

It is a very difficult circle to break out from; the fact is that violence (whether personal or international) always begets violence. We have a duty to try and understand those who are locked into a mindset of legitimised violence and to educate them where possible.

(I think this post may be deemed a mite controversial by some - I am sorry - please no-one take this personally!)

[sejintenej]

I'm afraid this Country is going to the dogs !

Would the last person to leave please turn the lights out ?

[edited]

He dispares now, still keeping in touch with the service as an advisor. Prison Officers are NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE any PHYSICAL contact with prisoners, except to protect prisioners from themselves, (self harmers); Protect prisoners from other prisoners or to cary out AUTHORISED body searches.

First they stop teachers from punishing kids, then they turn prisons into 5 star hotels.

now you understand why I and 300,000 other Brits leave this country every year.

[J.R.]

Sorry Hendik, I can't agree with anything you wrote above. You must have had an easy time at CH ! I can still hear the whistle of the cane before it made contact with my breeches !

Which really proves the point I have made elsewhere. Those who are subjected to violence etc. are the very ones who believe in it. The fact that statistics show that such punishment is ineffectual is ignored by those who argue for birching, death by hanging, frequent application of the cane to wayward children etc etc.

It is a very difficult circle to break out from; the fact is that violence (whether personal or international) always begets violence. We have a duty to try and understand those who are locked into a mindset of legitimised violence and to educate them where possible.

(I think this post may be deemed a mite controversial by some - I am sorry - please no-one take this personally!)

I certainly don't take it personnaly, Dave. Each to their own views. I never saw caning as violence, but as punishment, richly deserved in my case I might add ! The punishment was administered and over very quickly. Far better than detention or that ridiculous punishment of 'Lines'. What on earth did that ever achieve ??

Incidently ! Did you know that the absolute worst punishment you can inflict on a child is to send him her to her bedroom ?

[jtaylor]

Incidently ! Did you know that the absolute worst punishment you can inflict on a child is to send him her to her bedroom ?

Is that a bedroom with or without the TV, playstation, PC etc. etc.?

[J.R.]

Bedroom without.

'Experts' say a childs bedroom should be a place of safety and security. If a child sees their bedroom as a place of punishment, apparently sleep and behaviour problems increase !

Come back Spock - All is forgiven !

[eloisec]

Sorry Hendik, I can't agree with anything you wrote above. You must have had an easy time at CH ! I can still hear the whistle of the cane before it made contact with my breeches !

Which really proves the point I have made elsewhere. Those who are subjected to violence etc. are the very ones who believe in it.

... or are the very ones who will try as hard as they can to break the circle of violence you describe. and yes, I am speaking personally (although I'm not taking your message personally!).